[Leica] Leica Vario-Apo-Elmarit 70-180 vs. Vario-Elmar 105-280

[ted grant <75501.3002@compuserve.com>]

Pascal wrote:
<<<<<the Vario-Apo-Elmarit 70-180 f/2.8 and the Vario-Elmar 105-280 f/4.2.
How do these two lenses compare quality wise? I heard that the Apo is 
truly outstanding and in line with the prime Apo teles. Is this also the 
case for the Elmar although is not called Apo?>>>>>>

Pascal:
The 70-180 Apo stands in a class by itself as a champion of champion
lenses. From what I have seen and put on film I've never used a lens
comparable to it, even other Apos. It just stands above all others.

<<<both weigh almost 2 kilos, and together with R8 and winder, that 
would be around 3 kilos. Is it still possible to handhold these "beasts", 
or are you practically obliged to always use a tripod? >>>>>>

The answer is "yes and no". You can work with the 70-180 hand held easily
but not for any great time of holding it up to eye. However I use the older
version pistol grip with an micro switch & cord to the winder and a tubular
shoulder brace and it becomes a piece of cake to hand hold. Actually both
can be easily managed in this manner. Or the monopod is also a savior.

Without the shoulder brace the 105-280 f/4.2. is a hand and armful at
anytime and I have been using a monopod with mine. Or a tripod. I hate
tripods as they lock you to the ground and you are as mobile as a pyramid.

I prefer the monopod any time unless the exposure requires a locked down
location, then it's tripod time.

<<<Would it be wiser to go for a prime lens like the new Apo-Elmarit 180 
f/2.8 or the Apo-Telyt 180 f/3.4 which is now somewhat discounted, instead
of one of both zooms?>>>>>

Now that's an interesting question as I went with the new 70-180 and sold
my 180 2.8 and the 3.4. However what you find is, there are times when it
would be preferable to have the prime 180 for both size and weight factors
over the 70-180. So I'm rectifying the problem with the new Apo 180 2.8 to
compliment the 70-180 when I need a lighter and faster handling lens.

My advice would be get the new 70-180 first and save for the Apo 180 2.8 as
a partner to the 70-180 zoom.  If money is no abject just buy both and get
it over with. :)

<<<<It would seem I could either sell the 80 f/1.4 and get the 70-180 
f/2.8, or keep it and go for the 105-280 f/4.2 which will give more
range.>>>

No don't sell the 80 1.4 as that is a work horse lens for available light
at 1.4. You will get far more use out of the 70-180 than the 105-280. And
if you buy an Apo 2X extender to go with the 70-180 you immediately move
into 140-360 and this is longer than the 105-280 and you have Apo glass to
work with recording the images.

Not that there is anything wrong with the glass in the 105-280 as I have
found this past couple weeks it produces sharp crisp cutting into the film
and is a very fine lens indeed. My feeling as a user is the best
combination from using the 70-180, 80-200 and the 105-280  is the 70-180
and having an extender available rather than the 105-280. 

If price were a factor for purchase and I couldn't afford the 70-180, I'd
go for the 80-200 f4 as it's a beauty to hand hold and can easily become a
work horse lens being so easy to handle. And if push came to shove and I
had to use it indoors, I'd just use higher speed film and turn the lens
into an 80-200 2.8 lens. 

If price was again a factor but you were not going to do much interior
shooting, then the 105-280 would be the choice. Although I would prefer
this be a faster lens at both ends of the zoom, I also realize it would up
the cost by thousands of dollars beyond the range of many amateur
photographers. Probably pros as well. :)

I hope this helps.

ted