Re: [Leica] Americans. Now: baby killers

["Bryan Caldwell" <bcaldwell@softcom.net>]

Peter,

I live and practice in California. If you think that you can judge the legal
system by the O.J. Simpson case, you're sadly mistaken. I've seen many
defendants locked up for first time robbery offenses and even for much less.

If you really belive that you get off for your first robbery I again wish
you'd explain it to me. There are a number of judges I practice in front of
that I'd like to pass it on to. This week I had a judge tell a 14-year-old
client, who had committed his first robbery, that no one in his court room
was going to commit a crime of violence and not get locked up. The kid would
probably like to know your secret too.

Bryan


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter) <peterk@lucent.com>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Americans. Now: baby killers


> Come to California and learn...  OJ did.
>
> > ----------
> > From: Bryan Caldwell[SMTP:bcaldwell@softcom.net]
> > Reply To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 6:07 PM
> > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Americans.  Now: baby killers
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > >>In the US if you commit robbery you can get off, the seocnd time you
may
> > do
> > some time.  <<
> >
> > As a criminal defense attorney, I would very much like to know how this
> > works. A number of my clients would like to know too.
> >
> >
> > Bryan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kotsinadelis, Peter (Peter) <peterk@lucent.com>
> > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> > Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 1:05 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Leica] Americans. Now: baby killers
> >
> >
> > > Thank you for the information from that communist group of leftists
> > a.k.a.
> > > Amnesty International.
> > >
> > > Do they use Leica Rs or Ms?  Leica loupes perhaps to examine their
> > clienmts
> > > documents? I would hope so, after all they do need to find those loupe
> > > holes...er..umm I mean loop holes.
> > >
> > > As to the underage offenders who have committed murder, and whose
> > lawyers
> > > and others feel that execution is not necessary, I hope they serve a
> > child
> > > sitter for them or at very least become their house guest for an
> > extended
> > > period of time.
> > >
> > > To put the US in the same sentence as Yemen and Saudi Arabia is
> > ludicrous!!
> > > In the US if you commit robbery you can get off, the seocnd time you
may
> > do
> > > some time.  In the other countries you noted, the first time they
remove
> > > your right hand, and the next time they remove you from society
> > permanently
> > > with a means not as pleasant as lethal injection.
> > >
> > > Peter K
> > > (Not a lawyer, but a god fearing, Leica toting American!)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bryan Caldwell [mailto:bcaldwell@softcom.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:12 PM
> > > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] Americans. Now: baby killers
> > >
> > >
> > > The following statistics are provided by Amnesty International (and
> > > verifiable through any number of sources):
> > >
> > > "International law prohibits the execution of people who were under 18
> > at
> > > the time of the crime.
> > >
> > > "Most countries with the death penalty have laws exempting the
execution
> > of
> > > juvenile offenders; the only other countries, besides the United
States,
> > in
> > > which such executions are reported to have been carried out in the
1990s
> > are
> > > Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
> > >
> > > "There have been 13 executions of juvenile offenders in the USA,
> > including
> > 7
> > > in Texas. The 1st such execution in 20 years occurred in Texas in
1985.
> > >
> > > "As of May, 1999, over 70 juvenile offenders are on death rows in the
> > USA,
> > > including 26 on death row in Texas; 24 of the 38 US states with the
> > death
> > > penalty have laws allowing the imposition of death sentences on
> > juveniles.
> > >
> > > "In June 1989, the US Supreme Court ruled that the execution of
> > offenders
> > as
> > > young as 16 was permissible under the Constitution."
> > >
> > > There is a little semanitcs involved, however. The issue is not
whether
> > a
> > > juvenile has been executed (although that is possible) but whether a
> > person
> > > is executed for a crime that they committed while they were a
juvenile.
> > >
> > > Bryan
> > > (I'm a public defender currently assigned to juvenile cases in
> > California)
> > >
> > >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > ----
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Dan Cardish <dcardish@microtec.net>
> > > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 9:42 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [Leica] Americans. Now: baby killers
> > >
> > >
> > > > This has got to be the goofiest thing I have read yet on the LUG.
> > > > Absolutely idiotic.  Even the National Enquirer wouldn't try passing
> > off
> > > > such complete and total drivel.
> > > >
> > > > Dan C.
> > > >
> > > > At 10:41 AM 01-10-99 -0600, Tim Atherton wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> At , dkgibson@hushmail.com wrote:
> > > > >> >2. They are one of the last countries in the world which still
> > execute
> > > > >> >children; one of the few others being Afganistan. Although the
US
> > has
> > > > >> >executed more children than Afganistan in the last few years.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This is completely ludicrous. If it was happening, we would know
> > > > >> about it.
> > > > >> See, unlike the U.K. we have a free press.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Hmm,
> > > > >
> > > > >I don't recall all the details, but I do recall reading a longish
> > article
> > > > >about this in Vanity Fair I think, and also on Salon.com on the
> > internet
> > > I
> > > > >think? I think the point of the article was that most Americans
> > didn't
> > > know
> > > > >it was happening. Now, having just had a big magazine clear out, I
> > will
> > > have
> > > > >to go and see if it still there...
> > > > >
> > > > >Tim A
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > NO ARCHIVE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>