RE: [Leica] Light in the Delivery Room

["B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>]

It really is getting ridiculous to have so much time and space on the LUG
taken up by the nasty rantings of people who obviously know nothing about
photography - let alone photography using Leicas - or about much else for
that matter - AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU, BUZZ! :-) - But...

Bernard, Mon Ami, hospitals are notoriously and appallingly badly lit. (One
assumes your knowledge of them comes from watching re-runs of ER). Hallways
often vary between fluorescent hot-spots and deep shadow, and OR's - that's
Operating Rooms, Bernie - which is what a "delivery room" is, are flatly lit
spaces with, as Buzz points out - he's actually seen the inside of a few
hospitals - glaring hot-spots over the tables. It is not f 2.8 point and
shoot land. If one needs to shoot at 2.8, which I often do in order to still
use my 21, then one needs to shoot at 800-3200 asa if one actually wants
useable images on film...you know, B., that plasticy stuff that goes in the
back of the camera?.

Not that I have a Noctilux, but if any place in the work-world was made for
that lens, it is the hospital environment, where subjects are moving and the
lighting is low.

If anyone who hasn't wants to see what a 21 ASPH and 35 ASPH Sum can produce
in the hospital labor and delivery room environment, you can take a look at
http:/www.a-day-in-our-life.com
and go to Having Twins....and, oh yes, the doctor is Buzz's wife.

And where, Bernard, as I believe I have asked before, can we go to look at
your P&S photos? :-)

B. D.
(Who is really ashamed that the B. stands for....yes, it is, sadly, true,
Bernard.;-) )

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Buzz
> Hausner
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 7:55 AM
> To: 'leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us'
> Subject: [Leica] Light in the Delivery Room
>
>
> I have been present at the birth of my two children.  Also, my wife is an
> obstetrician and from her I have learned a great deal about the conditions
> under which women give birth and have had the opportunity to observe many
> delivery rooms in a number of US hospitals.  It is quite common
> in the U.S.
> to deliver a child in a fairly dark environment.  True, the
> actual plane of
> action will be well lighted perhaps by one focused lamp.
> However, the rest
> of the room may be quite dim.  Scenes such as the mother's first moments
> holding her child are often undertaken in subdued light.  Similarly,
> cleaning the newborn and her first examination by the doctor, the father's
> first snuggle with the swaddled baby, and many other touching and
> important
> moments may take place away from full or direct light.
>
> No, babies are not born in hospitals under the light of just one
> candle, but
> the delivery room may present many challenging lighting conditions which
> require wide apertures and fast films.  If you would actually
> like to learn
> something, Bernard, I would be happy to arrange for you to speak
> with people
> who deliver babies.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernard [mailto:4829.g23@g23.relcom.ru]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 1:52 AM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Leica] it DOESN'T work well for leica!
>
>
> Ted Grant wrote:
>
> > Bernard wrote:
> >
> > > I can't believe how you would need a nocti in a hospital. Isn't that
> people's
> > > workplace? Aren't there laws in the US stating how bright the light
> should be at
> > > people's workplace? Wouldn't a hospital be a well-lit place,
> practically
> per
> > > definition?! And the man has to use a nocti and ISO1600
> film... who are
> you
> > > kidding! A 2.8 quality point and shoot would have done just as nicely,
> and it's
> > > a lot quieter yet.<<<<<<<<<<<
> >
> > Excuse' moi?   Bernard,  have you ever been in a heart surgery recovery
> > room at 2 a.m.?  Like that's in the middle of the "dark time," you know
> > ......   night!
>
> Ted, as Jim Brick is so very ready to assert without really knowing what
> is going on, you indeed deserve all the respect in the world for your
> photography. So just such that you understand my following reply; I
> wasn't talking about you and shooting at night _at all_. If you had read
> what you reply to (no offense, but reading does help avoid
> misunderstandings), you would realize that I referred clearly (I had the
> quote included in my post, yet you snipped it) to Ken Lisaka's shooting
> of the birth of his son. I always thought that doctors delivered babies
> in more than the light of one single candle. But I could be wrong!
>
> > Now lets  take your post one line at a time so there wont be
> any confusion
> in what
> > I'm saying!
> >
> > <<<<<<<I can't believe how you would need a nocti in a hospital. Isn't
> > that people's
> > > workplace? <<<<<<<<<
> >
> > Yes it is. Lots of people work there. Day and " Night! "
>
> Don't they flip on the lights when a woman gives birth?
>
>
> >> >>>>>>>And the man has to use a nocti and ISO1600 film... who are you
> > kidding! <<<<<<<
> >
> > Well now son,  you better cut and run,  because in my entire
> life I never
> kid when
> > it comes to photography!  And if someone stated that I used ASA
> 1600 and a
> Noctilux,
> > then by God that's what I used.  However, I do believe it was ASA 800 if
> you're
> > referring to my earlier post on Plate 69 in my book "This is Our Work."
>
> Again, I wasn't referring to your book at all. I was curious as to why
> one would need f1 with ISO1600 (it might even have been D3200) in the
> delivery room (the Lisaka setup).
>
> > >>>>> A 2.8 quality point and shoot would have done just as nicely, and
> it's
> > > a lot quieter yet.<<<<<
> >
> > Really? It seems you might be mistaken unless you're using a loud  Leica
> M6!
>
> Perhaps a loud M3, but my Minilux is quieter.
>
> >  And as far as any suggestion of a pointie-shootie and a 2.8 lens, sorry
> old buddy,
> > never happen in the above mentioned lighting conditions.
> Unless you like
> point and
> > shoot wiggly squiggly pictures.
>
> Once again, I trust you entirely as to your book not being possible with
> a 2.8. But in the delivery room when the action comes down? If I were a
> doctor, I would really appreciate some light to shine down there.
>
> > Possibly you might do better with a few years experience under your belt
> in the real
> > world of available light photography before you make unfounded remarks
> about other
> > photographers work.  Actually at the moment you sound like some of the
> "visually
> > impaired editors" I've had to contend with over the years.  No
> offense me
> old son!
>
> Ted, you're the master, no doubt about it. But if you had read my post
> completely, I might have had a chance at not being called "photo
> editor", visually impaired or otherwise.
>
> Bernard
>