Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/03/06
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Austin-- On the first point (differences), yes they are different. How they function or what they do may not be different, but they are different products with different manufacturers with many differences between them. On the second point (lifetime warranty), yes, Tom warranties them for life. But for the life of whom? And as far as warranties go, I think most folks know that a few years is standard for a warranty and beyond that, you're on your own. Everyone knows that after a while, things age, stuff breaks, and people drop things after they're not new anymore. On the third point (infrastructure), I'm not talking about dealerships. I'm talking about the manufacturing infrastructure. By the time the product gets to the dealer for sale, the majority of the cost has already been built-in to the product. Don't kid yourself and think that the margins are that high. If I wanted to go out of business in a day, I could still sell you products at cost and you'd say, "Gosh, how come these things are so darned expensive?" On the fourth point (Leica vs Tom and your willingness to pay whatever you pay), well, Austin, that's your choice. No one is forcing you to buy the Leicavit. More power to you if you want to buy Tom's product. That's great for you, and for Tom, and for whoever is selling Tom's goodies. There are those who will pay for the Leicavit from Leica. That's a different customer from Austin Franklin. On the fifth point (economies of scale with a larger company, prices, etc), I said "one would think that a large company could make a product much cheaper," but at the same time, these aren't the same product. And as I said in another post, the after-market manufacturer doesn't have the same development costs that the OEM has. Remember who invented the Leicavit, the original, in the first place. Those costs are part of creating the new one. Perhaps the two products are very different. Have we compared what's inside and how they're made? Are they identical? Probably not. Tom's may well be the superior product. I'm willing to entertain that idea. Why not? On the sixth point (Tom's pricing and if it's fair), maybe Tom's pricing is fair. Maybe it's more fair to his customers than it is to him! I have no idea! Maybe he'll raise his prices because he can. Maybe he won't. Maybe he does just fine where he is. Maybe he'll get more customers because the presence of the Leicavit will raise people's awareness of his product. People who might find themselves in the market for a Leicavit who might find the price too steep may find their dealers showing them an Abrahmsson winder instead. Actually, I think the really smart dealers will carry both and give their customers a choice. On the last point (collector's items), well, like it or not, Leica is a collector's item. Every Leica product that comes off the workbench is a collector's item. So the Leicavit-M will be one, too. But at the same time, I'd bet that Tom's winders are also collector's items. What's wrong with that? Doesn't matter to me. As I've said before, there's a collector in every user, and a user in every collector. If you've got more than one of anything, you're a collector. ;-) Kit - -----Original Message----- From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Austin Franklin Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:55 AM To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us Subject: RE: [Leica] Comments on a BD Colen statement & PMA Kit, > With all due respect to everyone who has posted to this thread, I think it > is difficult to compare the products that Tom makes to those that Leica > makes in terms of cost, because they are two different products Are they VERY different? They may be different, but I believe hardly "very"... > with very > different business models. Why should that matter, as far as why I should pay more for it? Another thing to consider is warranty. Tom stands behind his for life, no matter where you bought it...and that avoids the Leica "warranty fuss fest". > Though both are hand-made, the infrastructure > that is bringing these two products to market is very, very different. Why? Tom sells his through Leica dealers as well...and doesn't Leica do so as well? > Not > only that, but even if Tom's overhead is lower than Leica's because he > operates a smaller operation, the cost of creating each individual unit is > how you have to compare--and again, that's only if the two are identical > products. I disagree. I don't CARE how much it costs anyone to make what they make. I know that I will absolutely not pay a premium of 1.5-2x for something with a Leica name on it, over Tom's superb product, unless there is some advantage to the Leica unit, which there does not appear to be. > One would think that a large company that can take advantage of > economies of > scale by using its existing manufacturing capacity and whatever else can > make a larger company more efficient at making something in quantity would > be able to do so with a price that is competitive. Correct... > But we are basing our > idea of a competitive price on Tom's current price for his product, which, > and I know I may get a faceful of rotten tomatoes for this one, may very > well be underpriced. But that's his business, not ours...and knowing what I do about the manufacture of products, I doubt his is underpriced as far as him making a FAIR profit from it. > Then again, maybe they are priced just > right. If that's > so, then I think--and I may get a faceful of rotten wienerschnitzels for > this one--that the introduction of the Leicavit-M may in fact help Tom's > business. Well, yes and no. I believe he produces all he can sell...and doesn't want to produce more...so in reality, they won't help his business, unless he decides he wants to make more. The Leica winder may take some sales away...though I doubt it. It almost looks to me like it's another "collectors item"... Regards, Austin - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html