RE: [Leica] Some may find this of interest

[Patrick Jelliffe <pbjbike@yahoo.com>]

All Kim was saying is that we don't know the facts,
and that until we do, it's all speculation, (as is
your surmising of Kim's reaction to the hypothetical
discovery of someone like Orin Hatch in like
circumstances). She supported her argument by listing
several other scenarios that may have occured, (read:
the word "maybe" prefacing her statements), and gave
examples of other victims of untimely dealths that get
no press. Her argument was theoretical in nature, and
we would all do well to keep the discussion at that
level.

Patrick

 
- --- bdcolen <bdcolen@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Since you don't know what happened - other than the
> reported facts that
> a 19-year-old female died under suspicious
> circumstances in the studio
> of a 56-year-old male photographer, don't you
> suppose you might be a bit
> premature wailing about the patriot act and other
> unrelated crap. Of
> course other young women, whose deaths we know
> nothing about, have died
> in the last few days, but that's hardly an excuse
> for somehow
> rationalizing what happened to this young woman,
> whose death we have
> heard about. Would you be expressing such outrage at
> the prurience of
> society, and vindictiveness of prosecutors who may
> or may not be up for
> re-election, and would you be as quick to offer
> plausible 'innocent'
> alternative theories about the case if rather than
> photographer Bob
> Shell, the 56-year-old man had been a Republican
> member of Congress?
> Some how I doubt that you would
> 
> And Sally Mann, pornographer? I don't know about
> that, but I'll
> certainly buy 'Sally Mann, who advanced her career
> on the naked backs of
> her own children who were unable, as any young child
> is, to refuse to
> participate as subjects for their Mom.' ;-)
> 
> B. D.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On
> Behalf Of
> Teresa299@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 2:32 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Some may find this of interest
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 6/14/03 8:26:45 AM,
> jbcollier@shaw.ca writes:
> 
> << The article stated that he is accused of doing
> those acts while the 
> victim was unconscious; in other words, aggravated
> assault and sexual 
> contact without consent (i.e.: rape). There is also
> the inference that 
> Bob may have supplied the drugs in question which
> would at least add 
> the charge of manslaughter; perhaps even second
> degree murder depending 
> any motive.
> 
> John Collier
>  >>
> 
> 
> 
> You know what, papers love scandal.  Sells more
> papers.
> 
> Who knows what the real story is here.  Bob Shell
> perv freak?  Marion 
> Franklin victim of Bob's evil ways?   Maybe Bob
> Shell was trying to help
> someone who 
> was addicted to drugs and rather than send her to a
> detox center he
> enabled 
> her, took photos of her, and she simply died at his
> studio.  Maybe Bob
> was 
> mainly a friend but fell helplessly in love with
> someone half his age
> (lots of 
> older men do this as they approach their male
> menopause).   Maybe the
> drugs were 
> forcefully administered to Marion, maybe they were
> into kinky sex/edge
> play 
> where one party consentually enters into the realm
> of semi or quasi 
> consciousness, that is consentual but dangerous
> nevertheless.  Maybe her
> being 
> incapacitated meant that she was into bondage and
> that she was tied up
> and not 
> unconscious.   Who knows?
> 
> 
> I do know that when a photographer goes from
> shooting simply flowers and
> 
> snapshots of clothed family you can get into the
> realm of a world of
> shit.   
> Photographers who shoot street protests can get
> clubbed, their leica's
> actually 
> bruised.  Photographers who shoots a verboten
> subject can get arrested, 
> questioned, perhaps put on some secret governmental
> patriot act III list
> of possible 
> threat to the US.   Photographers who shoot
> unclothed subjects can
> depending on 
> where they live and what they shoot be accused or at
> least swiped with
> the 
> veneer of pornography.    Just look at what happened
> to Sally Mann and
> her photos 
> of children, naked children.  Sally Mann,
> pornographer?
> 
> I don't presume to know what happened in this case. 
> I don't know the 
> motivations of the local police, or whether a
> prosecutor is up for
> re-election or 
> looking for higher office, or whether Bob is really
> a piece of pond scum
> or a 
> perpetrator of bad judgement by taking drugs and
> having sex with 19 year
> old 
> girl/women who take drugs as well.  In any case,
> involving a
> photographer who 
> shoots nudes, I always wait to hear all sides of the
> story.  Why?
> Because it's 
> such a titilating subject and in our sexually
> repressive society, facts
> can 
> often get lost in the way of scandal.
> 
> What is obvious is that a 19 year young women is
> dead.  And that is a 
> tragedy.  Of course lots of 19 year old women died
> in the world the last
> few days, 
> most that we'll never hear about because they died
> in far away places
> and died 
> of starvation, war, as battered wives or whatnot. 
> They all have died
> too young 
> and I hope whoever was responsible in all their
> cases, get a taste of
> justice 
> in the end.
> 
> 
> -Kim
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