Re: [Leica] Time to Replace that R4S . . .

["Will" <wlarsen@ocsnet.net>]

Well, I understand most of Mark Rabiners post...but this
time I have to respectively disagree.  Ben seems to want an
R camera that  is not dependent upon electronics.... that
leaves the SLs and the R 6  and the R6.2.   Personally my
camera of choice is the R6....just because I have one.   The
RE and the R5 are both electronic cameras where if the
battery or electronics go away...the options are limited for
shooting photographs...

Personally I am very cool with the R6

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Rabiner" <mark@rabinergroup.com>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 17:16
Subject: Re: [Leica] Time to Replace that R4S . . .


| BenMarks@aol.com wrote:
| >
| > Well, the ol' R4S has been diagnosed with a bad mirror
case escapement -- supposedly the linkage between the R4s's
meter and the chip which controls the shutter speed on
auto-exposure.  And wouldn'cha know the cost to repair is
greater than the cost to replace (check out the astoundingly
low prices on the R4s at KEH.com, for example).
| >
| > So this begs the question:  What to replace this camera
with?  I am looking for R-family recommendations (please no
discussion of digi-this-or-that). Any recommendations or
regrets amoung those shooting with R5, 6, 6.2, 7 or RE?  Any
dogs in this group?  I have to say, I use my R-series camera
when I want the exposure-automation features and have LOVED
the results.  Lenses are 35-50-135.  Incidentally, I think
that R8 and 9 are too spendy for me, even used, given the
amount of use this camera gets compared to my Ms.
| >
| > I'm thinking that I won't replace with another R4-era
camera unless someone has a recommendation as to how to
avoid electronics problems.  All of my "sudden death" camera
problems with Leicas (as opposed to idiot-photographer
dropping one for ex.) have been electronics problems.  Dead
meter - M6 after 10 years (second user), dying meter on R4s
after 8 years (second user) and "manual" - ISO setting
malfunction on my new M7 (still figuring out when I can part
with it for repairs as the DX-reading function seems to work
fine).
| >
| > So, R-users, what's working for you and why?
| >
| > Thanks in advance,
| >
| > Ben Marks
| > benmarks-at-AOL.com
| > --
| I beg to disagree. And would politely call this BS.
| Buying and selling diatribe number 87 Q.
| Please delete post if you've read these before from me.
| Every 4 months. You know the drill.
|
| If the price to replace an  R4s is so astounding low then
why look for
| another type of body?
| Has it be established that this "bad mirror case
escapement..." is a
| major ongoing flaw of the whole camera production
justifying this very
| low market price? Because it sounds to me like a great
deal would the R
| people please inform us?!
| As it is it's not clear why at this point to go looking
for another type
| of body.
|
| And It's tricky call shopping for a camera he plans to
seldom use.
| Naturally he plans to not spend too much for it as he
says.
| But something goes out on this body type and it's no
longer a good investment?
| That's a question R users and experts will answer.
|
| How much was the camera appreciated by its user before it
broke? Did it
| effortlessly take good pictures or not?
|
| Recently I had a CLA done for my Hasselblad ELM which cost
a couple
| hundred bucks. As there were some problems. Might have
been awhile. This
| is what a new used one would cost. I told him to go ahead
without
| blinking an eyeball. I know similar things have occurred
with my Nikon
| bodies which I'd used for a few decades and am now using
again because
| of digital. Sometimes they cost a lot of money to get
fixed.
|
| And I know that quite a few of my bodies have had their
accumulative
| Cla's and so on's. shutter replacements or what not cost
on the long run
| more than i paid for the camera. Or more than it would
cost to get
| another one.
| To me this means I am maintaining the camera not that I
have an
| delightful excuse to go shopping.
|
| I recommend having the camera fixed.
| And maintaining it until it proves itself a major lopsided
drain on the
| users finances. As in multiple incoming large maintenance
bills close
| together that don't seem to have an end.
| This is not what I'm seeing here. I'm seeing it broke
once.
|
| What was his state of mind with the camera before it broke
I ask again?
| Was it boring him? Was it thrilling him? Somewhere in
between?
| I find it strange that was omitted.
| I only ask because I imagine using a camera which somewone
were really
| getting in tune with would be a major disappointment when
it turned out
| to be a major maintenance problem.
| That would be a disappointment.
| I don't see that here. Or the opposite.
|
| I look forward to when one of my main cameras break. and
gets it over with.
| It's a much smoother ride generally after that.
| But sometimes cameras need work.
| And sometimes they need a lot of work.
| And sometimes they need fairly regular work. Like medium
format systems
| with backs.
|
| I don't sell my cameras out!
| And they repay me by taking a real nice picture for me
every once in a while.
|
| I try not to flit from camera to camera but get to know
the inner
| nuances of the bodies I use. To me to use a camera I
should not have to
| think. ... as in where a button might be. My hands should
be moving
| around without the need of my brain.
|
| The thrill of a new camera is nice in a way, don't get me
wrong. But the
| thrill of a new important photograph "for me" to add to my
body of work
| to print over and over again in different sizes and papers
and
| developers for shows and portfolios does not compare and
would rarely
| come from the use of a brand new camera body.
| Come over to my house I'll show you some photographs. If
we have time
| afterwards I'll show you some cameras. I think that ones
"photography"
| efforts become much more enjoying if one takes a similar
approach.
| Cameras are a means to an end. Decide what you like.
Photography or cameras.
|
| By the way the majority of the dozen or so camera bodies I
use have hit
| the floor or asphalt or gravel one time or another. I'll
admit it when
| most people won't. I pick them up and keep shooting. And I
expect them
| to work. Not that i don't break out into a cold sweat.
| If that happens to my D100 then I don't know!
|
| I had a Hasselblad CM fly out of my hand and go skimming a
half block
| down a side gravel street in Cannon Beach. It bounced at
least 4 times!
| It's first hit was on the lens hood of the 80 CF Which
semi collapsed as
| I think intended by the clever Swedes. I picked it up and
finished the
| roll. I brought in for a CLA when I got home and he said
it didn't need
| one!  I use it all the time. I bought it for 500 bucks 12
years ago!
| I'll admit to luck on that one.
|
| My advice is to buy a camera and MARRY IT. Use it up. Drop
it. Pick it
| up. Fix it. Count it's use to you in Decades! Buy bricks
of film for it.
| Shoot them. Take the emphasis off buying and selling
different cameras
| and on to the act of photography itself. This buying and
selling stuff
| is boring.
| If this was the Leica buyers and sellers group I think i
would have less
| of a point here.
| But this is the Leica USERS group.
| And although this would obviously take the emphasis away
from collecting.
| I hope harder it would take the emphasis off of TRADING.
| Collecting is a thing unto itself i actually have respect
for.
| The constant TRADING of one camera for another under the
title of some
| practice of photography really gets my goat.
|
|
| Mark Rabiner
|
| Portland, Oregon USA
| http://www.rabinergroup.com
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