Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/09/26
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Well, what would be really interesting is to examine Leica's consumer survey results that we hope people send back when they purchase cameras and lenses. Who IS buying? Are there youngish folks buying? My experience with my sales is that the majority of buyers of M and R gear, and the Digilux 2, are between about 35 and 65, are male, and have relatively substantial incomes (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc., a demographic not unlike that of the LUG-list). Yes, there are a few women in the bunch, a few photojournalists, a few younger-than-30 men, but not many. If I were Leica, I'd be looking hard at those statistics and trying to find a way to reach the younger set. At some point, you're going to run out of 50-ish men to sell to! Kit -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+leicagalpal=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+leicagalpal=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of B. D. Colen Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:03 AM To: 'Leica Users Group' Subject: RE: [Leica] Leica donation to students Well you are definitely a downer - BUT - you may also be the realist at this party. For all my cynicism about Leica the company, the future of film, etc., etc....I am a romantic at heart, and, when all is said and done, am as attached to the mythology as the rest of you lug(ers). Were that not the case, I would have sold my M gear at least a year ago. But thus far I just can't bring myself to do it. But your students and mine, and everyone else's for that matter, lack the romantic ties to Leitz, Leica, Ms, or, for that matter, to film! I am still convinced, however, that selling the Digi back as a loss leader WOULD revive the R line and could well be the move that could keep Leica alive long enough to develop a digital SLR from the ground up that would take the R manual lenses, and a new line of Leica R autofocus lenses :-) B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Karen Nakamura Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:33 AM To: Leica Users Group Subject: RE: [Leica] Leica donation to students >I don't know about your students, but I have students who would sell >their boyfriend/girlfriend to be able to own a Leica. In fact my most >"successful" student thus far - he is now signed up with one of the >agencies, shoots major league baseball, and on and on and on - scrimped >and saved and bought himself a used M 6 and a couple Cosina lenses. And >he's not some pie-in-the-sky nutty art student; his main cameras are >Canon EOS digitals. My students are pretty cheap -- they steal TacoBell "salsa" packets to put on their 99cent Walmart-brand spaghetti noodles and call it spaghetii marinara. But I think they're typical of 90% of the the general undergraduate population. The *truly* dedicated will get a Leica, but that population was already sold. How do you reach the not-so-dedicated? I don't think that price is the main problem. After all, they can always get an M3 for $900 or an M6 TTL for $1500. The used Leica market is effectively the equivalent of what people are talking about here. I don't think that Leica can sell an M7 for $1500 and survive. The same with the lenses. I have to admit I haven't bought any Leica lenses new. Why buy them for $3000 when you can get them near-mint on the LUG for $1000? Or an equivalent Cosina for $400? The economics are truly gloomy for Leica but discounting won't help them. We're assuming that students don't have access to ebay, where Leica prices have plummeted in the past year. This might have flown 5 years ago, but I don't see it flying right now. The example of your student only proves the point. He bought a used Leica and bought Cosina lenses. Net profit for Leica: $0. If he had bought a for-cost Leica and for-cost Leica lens, net profit for Leica: -$1000 (or so, whatever we decide overhead is). If your student goes out and buys an M7 and Summilux 50mm and 35mm within the next year, maybe. But that's just one anecdote (along with Ted's donation of a camera) involving the apocryphal super-dedicated student. These are pretty rare occasions. Even if I told my students that they could get a Leica + lens for $1500 each, I doubt more than one would sign up. Most would shrug. The rather-dedicated would rather get a EOS Digital Rebel with lens for $1000. The non-dedicated would get a used Canon FD for $100 and spend $900 on an iPod and other toys. That's the reality of this generation. Sorry to be a downer. Karen -- Karen Nakamura http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/ _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information