Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/01/16
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Yikes! A lot of that was what I was thinking, but I'm too lazy to write it all down! ;-) I was a bit smitten with the simplicity, but wondered why Kodak didn't sell it. My feelings were similar to yours...not much grain, not much sharpness, not much contrast. Mush might be the right word. Unsharp mask makes it look awful. So I thought D-23 must have been what Kodak came up with during the process of making something like D-76 (this D-23 seems to be missing something...). I still do have some rollfilm cameras, and I do have a brick of Verichrome Pan. I will try some 120 films (slower ones) with D-23 and see what hatches. Thanks for the comprehensive answer. It actually answered a lot of my questions. Jeffery Smith New Orleans, LA http://www.400tx.com -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+jsmith342=cox.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+jsmith342=cox.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Mark Rabiner Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:59 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] Tri-X and D-23 On 1/15/06 3:32 PM, "Jeffery Smith" <jsmith342@cox.net> typed: > If any of you have used this combination, how would you characterize > the results? Mine have been a bit odd. > > Jeffery Smith > New Orleans, LA > http://www.400tx.com > > D23 can be used and I think it was designed to be used volumetrically, using spoons not scales so the issue is to tweak the amount of Elon/ Metol and sulfite that you are using by switching spoons till the grain and compensation and edge effects have just the right consistency. Remember too many cooks spoil the broth! the formula is 7.5 Metol and 100 sulfite, 100 sulfite is fine for 8x10 film or maybe even 4x5 but for roll film its like using D76 straight, the last thing you'd ever do. If you did it you'd see the results right way, very unsharp blocky bunchy mush grain and too hard a look, you've got to do it the classic 1:1 way and my friends at Webster college all did it at 1:2, 1:1 makes for 50mls of sulfite per liter and we know what that looks like; a considered sharp enough but nothing to write home to mom about, 50 worth of solvent for a solvent developer to put it semi-mildly. Its not going to pass for Rodinal or Beutlers acutance developers. Ill take 33 and a 1/3 anyday or 20 even. I forgot what spoon that was or spoons heaping or otherwise. I used to use one of those sliding measuring spoons, but switched to keeping a spoon IN the sulfite jar and the small spoon IN the Elon jar for making up a solution in about 20 seconds by just reaching into the jar and grabbing its spoon and scooping it out minus the stirring which I didn't get all exited about, I forgot what measure 100grams of sulfite was I think I never used it using more like a tablespoon or a teaspoon even instead of the cup or cups of coffee measures it would have been. And the Elon I used was a teaspoon instead of the tablespoon they wanted I think. So I ended up with about 3 grams of Elon and between 20 and 33 or sulfite, you learn a huge amount from those tweaking of only two chemicals for a complete formula.. Sulfite and grain sure but tweaking the Elon until you have just the right edge effects and compensation, it turned out to be mainly an edge effect issue not wanting a definite white line on the inside of my black border so I could not go THAT dilute. I used this final but still occasionally tweaked watered down versions of d23 for years but it didn't work so will with tri x, great with plus x, Panatomic and the Ilford films. I found the 400 films needed some hydroquinone in the formula or it just was too flat. Making for an MQ formula. The M is Metol which Kodak calls Elon. And the Q stands for hydroquinone of course? Just like N stand for Rabiner and K stands for Mark. Skip the scales even if your have them have fun with spoons, trial and error looking at your default sized prints between 8x10 to 11x14 or more for it to me any real issue. Roll films just really the right developer or certainly dilution. In this case you have two controls on the dilution. Two perimeters. Pull stops. For a full developer corse. N.K. Rabiner Photography Portland Oregon http://rabinergroup.com/ _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information