[Leica] Alternate Whispering

[abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge)]

That's ONE philosophy B D but it's not the ONLY one.

There is something to be said for the text reconceptualizing what you
see, changing the context so what you thought you understood you now
understand differently.

It's not PURE but it can be very effective in the circumstance where
the story the image tells is either incomplete or made into something
else by the situation.

There's no way we could know he was whispering a prayer or the nature
of his faith. Tina's reportage adds to the image, frames it in
context, we gain.

We are creatures of vision and language - so combining them makes sense to 
me.

The very fact of Tina's photograph and caption diminish your argument.

Adam Bridge


On 4/6/06, B. D. Colen <bdcolen@comcast.net> wrote:
> Sorry, Gary - if a photograph is presented as a photograph, that is,
> presented on its own and not as an illustration for text, or as an excuse 
> to
> avoid writing text - a freestanding photo in a newspaper with explanatory
> caption - then it should speak for itself, without explanatory footnotes.
> Giving a photo a title - and that's really what we're talking about rather
> than captions - is a copout.
>
> Tina's photo is a lovely photo. As I said, I think it's one of the best
> image's she presented. But by itself it says none of the things Tina says 
> it
> says. And if it is presented as a photo that supposedly says those things,
> it fails. One of the things I tell students is that they have to remember
> that what they saw, heard, smelled, perhaps touched, thought or otherwise
> took in while they were photographing is utterly irrelevant to the viewer;
> all that matters is what is captured in that 60th of a second - 8000th of a
> second - in which the shutter opens and closes. All that the viewer can 
> know
> is what is printed on a single sheet of photographic paper, or projected
> the screen. So if Tina was caught up in the ceremony she witnessed, by the
> beauty, the warmth, the sounds of the father whispering the call to prayer
> to the baby, and wanted to convey that in a photograph, she failed. Period.
> And all writing the title does is admit that failure.
>
> Again, all of that said, I am not saying that the photo in question is not 
> a
> wonderful photo - I love it. And I have great admiration for Tina as a
> photographer. But that's not what we're talking about here; we're talking
> about photography as a visual, rather than written, medium.
>
> B. D.
>
>
> On 4/6/06 9:40 PM, "Gary Todoroff" <datamaster@northcoastphotos.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh boy, a chance to debate with both Ted and B.D. at the same time! 
> > Although
> > a great photo can indeed stand on its own, words along with a photo can
> > provide a synergy that goes well beyond either.
> >
> > For me, the work of writing a good caption is usually more effort than 
> > the
> > photograph, and I would love to agree with you both, just for the sake of
> > eliminating all that work! However, communication is a commitment and
> > obligation in which the extra effort of writing can often make a 
> > difference.
> >
> > I will agree that it is important to let a photograph "speak" to you 
> > first.
> > I have to remind myself to *look* at a photograph in order to *hear* the
> > photograph, an oxymoron that becomes understandable with the lingering
> > effort.
> >
> > However, depth of understanding can come with words that take you even
> > further into the world of a photo. Tina's photograph, I think, is good
> > example of that combination at work. Gents and lady - what a great time 
> > we
> > could have on an evening over these ideas!
> >
> > In any case, the viewer can always choose to not read a caption. And
> > "Alternate Whispering" makes for a perfect title for the direction of 
> > this
> > thread within a thread!
> >
> > Best,
> > Gary Todoroff
> > Tree LUGger/Lympa Logger - http://www.northcoastphotos.com/Lympa.htm
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: lug-bounces+datamaster=northcoastphotos.com@leica-users.org
> >> [mailto:lug-bounces+datamaster=northcoastphotos.com@leica-users.org]On
> >> Behalf Of Ted Grant
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:53 PM
> >> To: Leica Users Group
> >> Subject: Re: [Leica] Alternate Whispering
> >>
> >>
> >> B. D. Colen offered:
> >> Subject: Re: [Leica] Alternate Whispering
> >>
> >>
> >>> Definitely the original, Tina- But this is a classic example of why
> >>> photographers shouldn't put captions on photos, except where required 
> >>> in
> >>> newspapers and magazines. Again, I don't see whispering; I don't see
> >>> religion; I don't see call to prayer- I see father and child. Yes, in a
> >>> photo story this image may say every one of those things - but you're
> >>> showing an individual image. Just put it up, and let it tell it's own
> >>> story.<<
> >>
> >> Hi B. D.,
> >> I'm with you when it comes to putting words to a photograph because 
> >> quite
> >> often the words don't do a thing and I've seen news-photos in our
> >> National
> >> Newspaper photographer awards judging lose because we the judges have
> >> said... "What the heck does that have to do with what the picture is?"
> >>
> >> Photography is visual and when it comes to individual photographs
> >> most times
> >> words are meaningless. I've always said, particularly when judging... "I
> >> don't want to hear nor read what the picture is, I just want to make my
> >> decision on what I look at, not words that are supposed to make a
> >> difference
> >> to the decision.
> >>
> >> A photograph stands on it's own or it doesn't, look, enjoy or not, make
> >> decision, then find out what it's about. Yes sometimes knowing what the
> >> photograph is illustrating makes a difference. Sometimes before
> >> the judges
> >> give a  final marking often we ask for "word details" because
> >> sometimes it
> >> does make a major difference.
> >>
> >> But in the case of Tina's photograph it gave off such a wealth of
> >> emotion it
> >> truly needed to stand without words. Quite an interesting
> >> photograph to say
> >> the least.
> >>
> >> ted
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >> --
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 - Release Date: 4/6/2006
> >>
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 - Release Date: 4/6/2006
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>