Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/11/18
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]What a lovely neighbourhood... These ones are my favorites: http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/Images+from+the +M8/015.JPG.html http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/Images+from+the +M8/035.JPG.html Is the toasting portrait with a Noctilux? Thanks for showing, Philippe Op 18-nov-06, om 06:03 heeft Alastair Firkin het volgende geschreven: > I have had the M8 for 19 hours (including one sleep, while the > battery recharged) and I can report that at this stage -- > > "Don't worry: be happy" > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > L1000011.JPG.html > > "Happy loving couples make it look so easy" > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > L1000068.jpg.html > > When I turned 40, Helen surprised me with an M6, a decade later, > I've just bought my first pair of reading glasses and Helen has > bought me an M8. So here are some impressions from day one. > Firstly, thank you to Helen and the guys at camera exchange. It has > been a pleasure dealing with you for over 20 years. Its only a > shame the shop is so busy ;-) > > Thanks to the warnings of others, I had the the battery charged > before I arrived, so I was ready to experiment as soon as it was > loaded in the quirky "chamber". > > If you just want the results, here's an album: > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/Images+from+the+M8/ > > But to read some comments, please continue > > "So take a letter Maria" > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > 028.JPG.html > > Point One: Leica should be congratulated on this camera. Even with > the undoubted shortcomings, and I will show some of my examples > later, this is the first generation of a high quality rangefinder > digital camera and most of what they have done seems to work. Leica > rely on third parties for the sensor, and will NEVER in my life > time be likely to do otherwise. Leica do not have the cash flows of > Canon and do not have the experience in digital photography: lets > be honest, no one has the grunt or experience that Canon have, BUT > Canon do not make a rangefinder camera, so it is really pretty > pointless making too many comparisons with Canon SLRs, except to > hold them up as today's gold standards. > > It is a long way from: > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/Leica-Product/ > product001.jpg.html > > In my opinion based on a days use (big deal I know) Leica have made > some good progress. The camera is "faster" than the DMR, the > software seems a little more refined (my experience with the DMR is > also limited so this is just a gut feeling), the files come up > faster, write to the card faster and are smaller. They download > faster to the computer as a result and I only needed to buy a 2 gig > card to hold close to 200 images. > > Then there is the underlying reason many of us will buy the M8. We > want to use our M lenses and we like using rangefinder cameras. I > suspect we are using the M lenses but not to their fullest extent > (even though Leica would like to tell us so), but the results are > really very satisfying in terms of Lens to Image translation. > > > Point Two: unlike Tina, I found the camera "flew" into action very > quickly. I focused on a table under very low light, kept watching > through the finder as I turned the camera "on" and then waited for > the camera to give me a shutter speed on "A" setting and fired ASAP. > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > 041.JPG.html > > Well I reckon that the image was shot in just under one second: I > was delighted. The camera also seems to fire up as quickly from > "sleep". So touching the shutter release, or swinging the camera to > on as you raise it to your eye will give the camera time to be > ready to shoot. > > > Point three: shutter lag is not noticeable EXCEPT with TTL flash, > where the initial flash makes a delay that I could notice, and I > wondered if the dog's eyes were "blinking" by the time the shutter > and real flash fired. > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > flash1.JPG.html > > I have not used it yet as fill flash with people, but the lag may > effect the result. > > "He ain't heavy, he's my brother" > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > 032.JPG.html > > My first impression was how small the battery was, how light, how > neat, no wonder you will have a limited battery life. Because the > battery is so small, it will be no effort to carry one or two > spares, and using a small battery has limited the weight and size > of the camera. Knowing that battery technology is improving, this > may mean our cameras or the next generation will have even better > life, but I managed to take a full 2 gig card, chimp through the > images at the restaurant 2 or 3 times and download to the computer > before it died. We are told it will get better, so i think it will > be "good-enough" if not excessive for a user like me. > > Then I un-wrapped the camera, and it is solid, well in fact it is > heavy, but apart from feeling like my M6 on steroids, the M digital > is as everyone else has reported, an M feeling camera. A few minor > lessons and within minutes I was shooting in "A" (aperture > priority) and "M" (manual, or as I have always thought of it > shutter priority). The viewfinder is bright, the rangefinder seems > accurate and I was even happy focusing the 135mm with it. I suppose > I reached for the winder on 2 or 3 occasions, but the "strange" > feeling was that the camera was living after each shot, as the > motor recocked the shutter. That and the noise were a little off- > putting to a M user, but I soon became used to it. > > "As tight as a dope fiend's fix my friend, step in close and take > your stuff" > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > tightas1.JPG.html > > It has never really bothered me that the framing in the M was a > little "loose". I've always done my own printing, I have great > enlargers and the quality of film was good enough to allow me a > happy "wastage", but I feel a bit different with digital (though I > suppose it will pass). Being as most of you know a bit "tight", I > like to get my value, and so if I've got 10.3 million pixels to > use, I want to use them all. Besides, the sensor real estate is > expensive and already crops my lenses back by 30%. I immediately > noticed that the "image verification" which hits the monitor with > lightning speed (except in very low light conditions such as > leaving the mirror down on the visoflex) was showing me a fair > degree more than I had expected. On my very crude test: focused at > as close as I could get to the figure the framing means I go from > an image of 3900 x 2600 Pixels to 3300 x 2100 (ok, I know I have > not done this in perfect ratio, but you get the idea) a loss of > about 15%. So step in close then take another step. > > So here is the result > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > tightas1.JPG.html > > And this is about the excess outside the framelines > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > tightas2.JPG.html > > "Dust clusters to me like moths around the flame" > > I was reasonably careful, I did not "inspect" the shutter and > changed lenses as swiftly as I could, The earliest image I kept - > frame two, seems free of dust, but by frame 7, it was there already. > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > dust.JPG.html > > This dust problem must plague all non-self cleaning cameras and the > M8 is no different but cleaning the sensor is pretty easy. You need > a fairly fully charged battery before the camera will even let you > do it, but you switch to clean sensor in the menu, open the shutter > and blow away furiously with the rubber knob of the blower brush: > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > deDusted.JPG.html > > the next day, I did this and could only find a couple of small > remnant specks, BUT this shows how idiotic some of our obsession > with pixel perfect really is, and again, makes me very impressed > with the Olympus E 500, who still has no sign of dust after > hundreds of "unprotected" lens changes. Of course the Olympus takes > much longer to start up!!!!. I would like an ultrasonic cleaning of > the sensor at the touch of a button "when I wanted it"!!! Seems > dust is now my enemy before I reach the darkroom. > > "Oh dear what can I do, baby's in black and she's turning blue" > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > bINb1.JPG.html > > The above image of black clad persons in sunshine, and below a > group, where I at first wondered if the T shirt on the girl in the > foreground was affected, till I spotted the black T shirt on the > girl behind: I think the colours are pretty good in these situations. > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > bINb4.JPG.html > > So what of the famed "issues" which have already been discussed on > this forum and others. I reasoned that the infrared problem would > be worse at night. After all, there is less normal visible light > and the body may give off a greater percentage of IR. Well to some > extent I suspect it is true. Above are two images of people wearing > black in the sunlight, and I'm not sure how much effect there is, > but at night in the restaurant I took an image of the waitress who > was in "black". The first image is the camera's impression of the > scene under "tungsten" setting ISO 1250 > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > bINb2.JPG.html > > and the second with PS's "auto-colour". Compared with the belt it > remains pretty "blue". > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > bINb2a.JPG.html > > I'm pretty impressed with the high ISO performance, though I know > the Canons do it better, this is not too grubby compared with > film!!! I agree that Leica or Kodak or someone needs to find a > reasonable solution to this IR cast. If I am right and it becomes a > real issue in low light, then we will need to have hi-pass filters > on our Noctilux ;-) As Helen said: dark blue is NOT the new black. > For me, iffff it is an issue at high ISO and low light levels and I > have to put up with it, I'll live with it and try to remember to > put a filter on. > > "When everything old is new again" > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > Everythingold.JPG.html > > I have attached the visoflex and it works, but the shutter arm is > on the edge of the release, and you do need to give the camera time > to set the meter, so it did not work with the last instant mirror > release setting. You needed to raise the mirror slowly and then hit > the release. Of course I soon noticed that the framing was "off" > before realizing that the framing difference was the difference > between the 35mm film size and the sensor size. > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > everythingold2.JPG.html > > So it was very late when we got home to feed the dogs ;-) > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/M8+testing/ > availabledark1.JPG.html > > > Summary > The DMR is an interesting hybrid and has 2 possible big selling > points for longevity: > > 1) to replace the sensor, Leica could continue to develop the back > and I would not have to buy a new camera and > > 2) you can get to the sensor. I've already praised the Olympus dust > reduction on this list: it seems to work very well, but for how > long. Compared with cameras which rely on a return to the dealer > for cleaning, the DMR and now the M8 are streets ahead, especially > if like me you are planning on using them for 2 to 5 years. If > yesterdays experience is anything to go by, the camera would be > heading back to be cleaned DAILY. > > The colour problem needs to be solved: I may be able to live with > it using filters, as long as the situations in which the filters > are needed are predictable and few. It is the only real failing of > the camera so far in my testing. > > So here are a few other examples in one album > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Alastair/album184/Images+from+the+M8/ > > Thanks for listening and happy shooting > > Cheers > Alastair > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >