[Leica] Sorry, this is my last M8 review, but Kyle's post deserves comment

[firkin at ncable.net.au (Alastair Firkin)]

Hi Kyle,

good to have you posting on the LUG. I am not surprised by your response
to the M8. Like
Nathan and others, who have made a successful transition to Canon digital
bodies, you are used
to the best digital imaging currently available, from the leading maker of
digital products.
I "suspect" you have forgotten the limitations of the M6, having embraced
the features of a
modern autofocus autoexposure autoflash 5th generation SLR machine.


I don't suppose anyone on earth really "needs" an M8. We are hosting the
G20 here in Melbourne
and the "protestors" would find the cost of an M8 somewhat obscene. If the
rangefinder handling or the
size and quality of M series lenses  is not important, then given the
great results you have
been achieving, don't even think about it. For a pro, who is satisfied
with their equipment, any
additional "baggage" is clearly not a financially sound investment. As to
your comments.

As I reported, it feels heavy and somewhat like an M on steroids, BUT I do
think it has the quality
feel of the M line. It feels thicker, because it is.

Whenever I use the LTM cameras, I think how much nicer the M would have
been if they had not
made it bigger. The smaller body on the older camera suits may small
hands, BUT the M3 was a better
image making tool than the IIIG and the change was worth it. The M5 was a
better image making tool
than the M4 but the change in ergonomics were judged too great: it failed.
The M8 is a better image
making tool than the M7 (given that there are advantages in digital images
anyway) and the required
change in ergonomics will be judged: obviously judged as poor by you and
others. Heavy slippery
expensive and noisy would seem to sum it up.

But,

the viewfinder is bright, the rangefinder is accurate and fast, the frame
lines have been kept
to a minimum though I do think they are a bit conservative, so it feels
and responds like an M.
The shutter dial is where I'd expect it, the f-stops are adjusted as
always and the focus is via the
lens. The viewfinder is uncluttered with minimal LED's. So preparation and
framing of the image is
unchanged from the M6/7.

The shutter fires at up to 1/8000, which I found great when using the
NOctilux,
the flash sync is now "useable" for fill flash, and the  possibilities in
low light are "for me"
exciting. In these respects it is "better" than the M7, and the shutter
release feels the same but
as soon as you fire a shot, you do find a difference.

"clunk-whirr" was a bit off putting at first I agree, but it is less noisy
than my dslr.
Helen makes the good point that with the M you used to have a defined
click and then you could choose
when to have the wind on noise, where as now  you have no choice.
The shutter fires and the cocking noise follows. It is not bad, just
different.
I find the 'style' of the noise quite satisfying. It is lower in pitch and
smoother than some, but it is
noisy compared with the unadvanced M.

As I used the camera, I quickly became used to the bulk,and the noise so
by the end of the day, it
was simply like using an M series camera with instant image review
facility. Battery life was fine,
lasting the days shoot and download of 180 images, remembering it was the
first time the battery had
been charged

The colour issues and IR sensitivity is not finalized. So far it has only
been an issue for me when.

1) the level of "visible" light is very low and the sensor is searching
for every photon it can find
2) at high ISO with black clothing.

Colour representation is not perfect with ANY system or camera, but seems
to be as good with the M8
as anything I've seen with other top end digital cameras.

I still maintain that Leica is to be commended in doing as well as they
have. I would dispute 3x more
expensive than a better camera. The only option is the Epson RD1, its
certainly not better and
though cheaper is perhaps not 1/3 the price. There is NOTHING else to
compare with ifffff you want
a rangefinder with small body and small lenses. The quality of the images
is fine and the resolution
is stunning. IT IS NOT PERFECT, but I do not own a perfect camera that
fits all known criteria.

I'm very glad you had your ephiphany, I would not have thought the M8 was
suited to the work you do
in general. I would not recommend an M8 to most users. It has a small
niche market. I hope Leica can
maintain that market if only to supply some choice. If we all had to have
the best most developed
sensor in our cameras, we would all be using Canon and nothing else.

For me I like a smaller camera body, I like a well made piece of equipment
and I love the general
dedication to the best optical path. I do not expect the first camera to
be Leica's best, I can
only hope they survive long enough to develop the system as the classic M
system evolved over the
last 50 years. Who knows, with technology improvements, the camera might
get smaller again ;-)> i went up to leica day at jim shulman's, had some
lasagnia, then talked
> with a bunch of luggers about gossen luna pro's and stuff, just like in
> the old days, then we swaggered over to the camera store to meet the
> digital m8. from the moment i put my hands on it i was ... underwhelmed.
>
> some thoughts:
>
> * leica's basically asking us to drop $5,000 on a camera that's not as
> good as a DSLR half it's price (or even a third) -- so in exchange it
> needs to give me something -- it needs to get me feeling like i was years
> back when i used my leicas and was in love with my camera (i am no longer
> in love with my camera, but my pictures are better -- it's a sad trade,
> but if your goal is the picture, it's one i'll make, if reluctantly).
>
> * the M8 _sort of_ feels like an m. but not really. immediately upon
> picking it up i noticed two tactile sensations:
>
>   1) it's not as solid feeling
>   2) it feels a lot thicker
>
> the front view in the brochure makes it look like a beautiful classic m.
> from the top, it looks like an m and a half glued together.
>
> * i clicked the shutter and it went "clunk-whirr!" -- like an slr with an
> old-school winder. with all this going through my mind, one of the camera
> sales people said "imagine taking photos at two frames a second!" -- i'm
> already taking photos at five frames a second with my leica d200.
>
> * having read the magenta article at jim's earlier in the day -- my brain
> connected the dots -- not quite an M, three times more expensive than a
> better camera, released with bugs ....
>
> like saul on the road to damascus, i had an ephiphany -- or at least a
> breakthrough. i saw the world in a clearer light. i want the m8 to be a
> digital version of the m6. i want that feeling i had five years ago, but i
> also want good photos, the best photos that my cameras can get me in the
> compromise of speed, size, and time. the m8 isn't going to help me, it's
> just a $5,000 excuse to set me back slightly at the cost of dilluding
> myself into thinking i'm having more fun than i am. like the Wedding
> Guest, i went home a sad and wiser man.
>
> this week i'll be in the pacific northwest photographing gun owners, and
> i'll be doing it with the leica d200.
>
> kc
>
>
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