Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/09/25

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Subject: [Leica] a serious question
From: photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Philip Forrest)
Date: Thu Sep 25 08:10:27 2008
References: <7A863272-CCBA-4DC5-84E9-0E546CDF201E@mac.com> <20080925024515.55176af0@linux-019a.site> <8FEDFDC8-2735-4DDC-967C-20E849F6DF4D@mac.com>

I had meant to say "This is why they continue to not be able to play on
the world market with companies like Canon and Nikon."
I wrote it quite late just before hitting the hay.

Really, the cost of Leica in the past and the present has just been too
high for the bulk of customers with the money to spend. So the
difference between a $3k lens and a $2k lens is ZERO to a person who
wants to get into Leica but doesn't have the funds.

R&D and all of that taken into account, Leica still falls short in
pricing vs product utility. Most consumers CAN'T buy into this system
no matter how much they want to therefore they get a Canon or Nikon
which offer products that are just as attractive at a much lower price.
Canon and Nikon have customer service which is second to none. It's
quick and here in the US. Even here on the LUG we occasionally read
about someone who has experienced difficulty with their Leica, sent it
to Solms and is still waiting on their camera months later. Most
working photographers who are serious enough to own a Leica can't
afford that kind of down-time and also can't afford a second body.
I saved up for months to buy my first M2 and two used lenses. Most
people just don't rationalize that kind of expense on a camera. THAT is
why Leica can't compete and remains the imaging tool for the rich
connoisseur (as viewed by the non-leica-owning populace.) 
PhilFo




Reality check

On Sep 25, 2008, at 1:45 AM, Philip Forrest wrote:
> Because there is no logical reason that a manual focus 50mm lens  
> should
> cost $5000.  

I suspect that if you saw the balance sheets for: amortizing R&D,  
materials and labor in production, reasonable profit, marketing  
costs, dealer markups et al - the logical reality would become clear  
to you.

> Most other Leica lenses cost upwards of $3k as well for
> modern optics.  

False: 90 Macro Elmar, 50 Summicron, 24 Elmarit R all $2,000; 28  
Elmarit, asph $1,800; Summarit line $1,300 - $1500

> This is why they continue to be able to play on the
> world market with companies like Canon and Nikon.  

So something's working - your point?

> Leica's M8 may be
> nice but it's only 1/3 the camera that an EOS 5D is,  

As an owner of both; in my subjective opinion - the M8 "is" 3 times  
better than the 5D - because it delivers more fine detail, dynamic  
range and useable shadow detail.

> and for the price
> of the M8, you can get the EOS with a lens.  

or 4 Canon Rebels; or 250 Holgas; or a used car; or a fine watch; or  
a hundred good watches; or a terrific bicycle; or 4 really nice  
bicycles; or or or

> I can go on & on. I love
> the film bodies, love the old lenses, will never afford the new ones
> and probably have no reason to anyways.  

Leica, new in sealed box, has always cost the most, because they've  
always been a small company making terrific, high quality products in  
small quantities (with some exceptions). Nothing new about that. Why  
diss them for what they have always been and continue to be?

> As long as Leica continues to cater to its core constituency with
> making innovations for the next generation, they will always be on the
> rocks.  

On the rocks? This week they seem to be afloat, cruising beautifully  
around a very large harbor; welcoming stunned guests aboard.

Fond regards,
George

george@imagist.com
http://www.imagist.com
http://www.imagist.com/blog
http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist





Replies: Reply from imagist3 at mac.com (Lottermoser George) ([Leica] a serious question)
Reply from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] a serious question)
In reply to: Message from imagist3 at mac.com (Lottermoser George) ([Leica] a serious question)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Philip Forrest) ([Leica] a serious question)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (Lottermoser George) ([Leica] a serious question)