Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/01/18
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Charlie, Frank and other vinyl-o-philes - say it quickly and it will sound like vanillafiles ;-) : a few years ago a dear friend and client of over 30 years passed and left me her almost entirely classical record collection, probably over 2,000 discs, 78 and 33. Onto that I also have discs from the 1930's and 40's I inherited from my parents, who met as a result of having the same voice teacher. I intend to engage a music major at Skidmore College, here in Saratoga Springs, to catalog them. Is there a company through which I may sell what I don't want to keep? Seth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Chan" <topoxforddoc@btinternet.com> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:37 AM Subject: Re: [Leica] more audiophilia spectacularly OT but interesting to a few > There's no substitute for using your senses - eyes or ears. Good > dealers are difficult to come by nowadays. Two channel hi-fi is much > more of a niche market now, with many people going to 5.1 or 7.1 > systems with lots of bass boost. > > I've collected my hi-fi over 30 years, having spent my younger days > selling the stuff in a shop with a guy called Ken Kessler. As a > result, I'm a vinyl, valves (tubes) and efficient speakers man. > there's no such thing as a perfect hi-fi component or system. The room > in which you listen is very important too; you just have to go to > enough live music events (classical, jazz or rock) to appreciate how > some venues are acoustically terrible. > > I've spent a lot of money on my turntable (Platine Verdier/ Schroeder > Model 2 arm and Allaerts MC1B cartridge) and I'm very happy now. So > now I just spend my money on records. It's just like cameras - you buy > the kit you want to use and then you should take lots of pictures. > > Charlie Chan > Cheltenham, UK > > On 18 Jan 2009, at 08:48, Frank Dernie wrote: > >> Lluis, >> I learned this lesson years ago, like you. I also had a dealer, now >> retired, who let me try anything at home. Most of what I use now I >> bought from him over the years, the most recent about 10 years ago, >> based on listening. I am still very happy! >> 20 years after having been so impressed by how much less parasitic >> interference there was on the pickup signal using a Goldmund >> reference turntable I managed to track down a used one in good >> mechanical condition at a not too extreme price. That is what I now >> use. >> best regards, >> Frank >> >> On 17 Jan, 2009, at 18:48, Lluis Ripoll wrote: >> >>> Hi Frank, >>> >>> Thank you for your good explanation, you have a really good >>> knowledge, the problem with the Hi-Fi is as you know that the >>> prices to improve quality increase geometrically, in other words, >>> if your actual investiment is level 10 to have a quality level 15 >>> you should pay 20, and to have a quality 23 you should pay 35... In >>> my experience when I've purchased something I've paid attention to >>> the differences etc.., even the shop who sells me they know me >>> after I was very young and they leave me the things at home to try >>> and compare..., but once you buy it you are used to listen and >>> many, many times I don't pay attention to the details that make >>> better an outfit over the other. >>> >>> Saludos cordiales >>> Lluis >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> El 17/01/2009, a las 19:03, Frank Dernie escribi?: >>> >>>> Hi Lluis! >>>> Before I took up my current career I did R&D and design of record >>>> players. You are absolutely right, the requirement of the >>>> turntable is to rotate at constant speed and no sound parasites. >>>> The technical problem is to achieve this. No turntable I have ever >>>> measured or heard actually achieves it. Our ears are more >>>> sensitive than any transducer in both frequency and amplitude. >>>> There is -no- turntable ever made which produces no sound >>>> parasites, and the vast majority produce a lot of sound parasites >>>> and at quite high level. Clever designers design their players so >>>> the parasitic resonances and feedback are at frequencies and "Q" >>>> that listeners find pleasant. Many record players I have measured >>>> have very obviously been tuned to only add harmonious >>>> "interference". >>>> There was one very highly regarded SME arm, the 3009, which had >>>> such energetic resonances that they could be seen as big peaks on >>>> the curve if one was trying to measure a pickup cartridge, the >>>> signal added by this arm at some frequencies was louder than the >>>> original music! The other thing difficult to avoid is the time >>>> delayed feedback from the sound in the room, both structure-borne >>>> and airborne. >>>> >>>> A few people have tried to lower there parasitics considerably. >>>> The ones I have seen which do this in a technically sound way are >>>> Goldmund and Continuum (there are others who get part way there at >>>> a less "no compromise price"). I am familiar with the Goldmund >>>> (the original not the new limited edition one which seems >>>> ludicrously expensive) Of all those I know it allows by far the >>>> lowest level of parasitic interference get to the pickup >>>> cartridge. What Continuum print is technically very sound. I would >>>> not be surprised to find it superior to the Goldmund in these >>>> respects. >>>> >>>> The Clearaudio is based on pseudo-technical gobbledygook which is >>>> either there to keep their secrets or, looking at the design, >>>> simply to separate clients from their cash. In my opinion. >>>> >>>> The pickup cartridge is, as you say, very important. I also use an >>>> Ortofon. In fact the generator design and pivot damping dominate >>>> the characteristics at lower frequencies. As frequencies increase >>>> the shape of the stylus tip is increasingly important, I forget >>>> the frequency limit for the original spherical tips but at a >>>> surprisingly low frequency the radius of the tip is bigger than >>>> the curve it would have to follow in the groove. At this point it >>>> starts being very inaccurate. The best stylus tips are very >>>> expensive. All this is wasted however if the turntable and arm >>>> either generate parasites or allow feedback through. All >>>> turntables do to a surprisingly high degree, the nice ones are the >>>> ones that add harmonious interference! >>>> >>>> best regards, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17 Jan, 2009, at 16:26, Lluis Ripoll wrote: >>>> >>>>> Frank, >>>>> >>>>> This is a beautiful "toy"! >>>>> >>>>> In my opinion the turntable is not a "main element", the capsule >>>>> could be more important. For me the work of a turntable should >>>>> be: constant speed, and no sound parasites, the good work is do >>>>> by the rest of the installation and also a vey important thing, >>>>> I've expend some money on have good cables and connectors. My >>>>> turntable is a Lenco L-78 from the 70's with an Ortophon capsule >>>>> and it still sound very good, enought for me. >>>>> >>>>> Saludos cordiales >>>>> Lluis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> El 17/01/2009, a las 11:32, Frank Dernie escribi?: >>>>> >>>>>> I know most of you will think this high price stuff is a joke, >>>>>> and at this price (and actually, looking at the design as a >>>>>> person who used to design high end turntables >30 years ago, >>>>>> this particular item is a victory for marketing). The most >>>>>> important engineering aspects for a turntable to work well are >>>>>> not addressed in this design, more a styling/marketing exercise >>>>>> (IMHO). >>>>>> It is actually extremely high tech to produce a device to >>>>>> transduce records without adding some, or a lot, of non signal >>>>>> related vibrations ends up being added to the output by the >>>>>> machine. A record playing device which works well is likely to >>>>>> cost several orders on magnitude more than any CD player, and >>>>>> is probably not worth it........ >>>>>> The device I have measured and listened to which is the most >>>>>> accurate, the Goldmund Reference was very expensive (not as much >>>>>> as this thing though) and made in tiny quantities. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is a very expensive turntable system which, based on my >>>>>> knowledge, probably is the most accurate one available. It >>>>>> cleverly addresses all the important requirements I know of. I >>>>>> have never seen or listened to one. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.continuumaudiolabs.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> but not as pretty. >>>>>> FWIW, >>>>>> Frank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 16 Jan, 2009, at 20:17, Henning Wulff wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> At 12:26 PM -0700 1/16/09, Greg Lorenzo wrote: >>>>>>>> George Lottermoser writes:> > >>>>>>>> <http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/16/ces.luxury.turntable/index.html? >>>>>>>> > iref=mpstoryview>> > nonsensically cryptic,> george >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quoted from the link: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "When I look at it," said Placido Pappalardo, co-owner of >>>>>>>> maker Angelis Labor, "the only word that comes to mind is love." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The first word that came to my mind was 'stupid'. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Greg Lorenzo >>>>>>>> Calgary, Canada >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about this one for $125,000? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/CAstatement.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But the tonearms are included. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Henning J. Wulff >>>>>>> /|\ Wulff Photography & Design >>>>>>> /###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com >>>>>>> |[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>> information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>> information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>> information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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