[Leica] the ultimate digest Leica criticism thread

[tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca)]

Steve Unsworth asked:
Subject: Re: [Leica] the ultimate digest Leica criticism thread


> Just a quick question Ted, did you treat your own children in the same way
> when they were at home? Lock them in cupboards for hours maybe, or banged
> their heads against a table if they answered a question incorrectly?<<<<

Not at all.
However they did get a smack on the butt if they were told not to do 
something for their own good. As in reaching to the top of the stove when it 
was on and they'd been told not to do so several times. It's three times and 
you are out! Then they'd get a smack on the butt! This is a big difference 
compared to some people who don't know the difference between "beating 
children" and those who know a good smack on the ass with further words of 
discouragement, children learn, "No" means No!

>>>If not, do you think they would have been better people if you had?<<,,,

No not at all. Parents who beat or torture their children locking them up 
only beget people who beat others and or unfortunately, develop twisted 
minds to beat others in whatever fashion during the aftermath of their 
lives.

> We had some sadistic teachers when I was at school too. I remember one
> occasion in a German lesson where the teacher lost his temper with a 
> pupil,
> put his head in the desk and repeatedly banded the top of the desk on the
> back of his head, not as a punishment but purely and simply because he'd
> lost both his temper and his control. Others were throwing board dusters
> around. Another - a P.E. Teacher - used to watch the young boys when they
> were taking a shower. I could go on.<<<<<

As far as I know we never had any "boy watchers."  I would say "Basher Reid" 
never lost his temper during the 5 years I attended Danforth Tech in 
Toronto, Canada. But he did give a few good lessons in discipline. Actually 
most students behaved and really put every moment into learning from this 
teacher. Yes as always, there were some smart asses that needed a smack or 
two before they got the message that we were there to learn, not fooling 
around. And if he smacked someone, rarely did he ever have to give the 
student another during the complete school year.

> I normally agree with you Ted, but I think you are wrong in promoting
> control by fear. If kids misbehave it's because of the parents IMHO.<<<<<

Well I don't think I was promoting fear, we did learn a great deal in his 
classes. Some kids went on to win scholarships and credited it to the fact 
"Basher Reid" made them study extremely hard which carried them through to 
be better students in all venues.

>>>If kids misbehave it's because of the parents IMHO.<<<<<

I absolutely and unequivocally agree!  Bad parents beget bad kids. In many 
cases it would be far more  beneficial to give the parent a good smack on 
the side of the head or butt! But then some of those parents grew up in 
constant fear from drunken or abusive parents, so they don't know any other 
way than beating or physically punishing a child to behave.

I beleive we are on the same path on the discipline. My points about Basher 
Reid and his smacking a student for disrupting a class created very strong 
stories for many students before they got to his classes. Everyone heard the 
stories so everyone figured better to behave and learn than get smacked for 
fooling around. Actually in this case just the stories were enough for 
everyone behaving.

When we were in his class everything was head down and learning without 
distraction from students who didn't take learning very seriously.

cheers,
ted