Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/03/03

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Subject: [Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited
From: leowesson at gmail.com (leo wesson)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 11:21:07 -0600
References: <36172e5a1003021807sc386aag5660bae386eaa8cb@mail.gmail.com> <FA42BD7C-6A39-4634-BE39-0E7EBC9C4101@frozenlight.eu> <CCE9B5F7B58242C9B4632272CB0039A3@jimnichols> <36172e5a1003022216y71538c5bv2bc5b2c4d5467572@mail.gmail.com> <7886F22A-B999-4B38-9656-305D768282CD@frozenlight.eu> <36172e5a1003030037x52e47dc7lde9e2cd9c0cbac85@mail.gmail.com> <F99F17C2-E403-4BE5-ACAA-DBA3BE355965@frozenlight.eu>

My cleaning woes,  on a D3 can all be tracked back to using the arctic
butterfly to clean dust off of a filter.  Oil got on the brush so
whenever i tried to clean the sensor i oiled it instead.  had to buy
the oil remover solution and use another solution after that to clean
that residue.  I probably used 50$ worth of cleaning pads and
purchased 50$ worth of cleaner before I figured out that I was stupid
and should have read the directions on the arctic butterfly where it
says, "do not use on filters or lenses".

compared to a d3, cleaning the m8 was a breeze.


Leo Wesson
Photographer/Videographer
817.733.9157
www.leowesson.com



On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> 
wrote:
> You are mixing two different things, Geoff. The supersonic wave filter 
> does not move the sensor and I do not see why Leica would not adapt it 
> except for the usual "not invented here" syndrome. IS is what moves the 
> sensor around in an E3, and I agree that this is one feature that Leica 
> can do without and that I generally do not use even on cameras that have 
> it.
>
> Cheers,
> Nathan
>
> Nathan Wajsman
> Alicante, Spain
> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> http://www.greatpix.eu
> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>
> Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 3, 2010, at 9:37 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>
>> Well I was being flippant, but does it not have IS also???????.
>> You have a supersonic wave filter in front of the sensor assembly for
>> repelling dust, yes. Most Olys have a Supersonic Wave Drive (it's a 
>> stepping
>> motor system in the E620) which is used for the image stabilisation
>> system. The whole sensor assembly is moved in at least two planes. That
>> sensor ain't nailed down ;-). In any caser, fill your boots ;-) I was just
>> commenting on my personal preference for the way Leica does it. Actually I
>> would think that it would be technically difficult if not impossible to 
>> fit
>> such systems into an M. The S2 does not have it either and of course there
>> is rather more room in there.
>> Who knows what future Leica camera may have in there. But it won't be an M
>> any longer if it moves to LiveView and IS and EVFs and the rest of it. You
>> are right that those things are virtually standard in the mainstream 
>> dSLRs.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Geoff
>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>> M is for Messsucher
>>
>>
>> On 3 March 2010 16:44, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> wrote:
>>
>>> Geoff, I am never held back from using my M8 either. I am careful about
>>> where and how I change lenses here in dusty Spain, but otherwise no 
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> However, why do you call the Oly system "vibrating sensor"? It is an
>>> ultrasound thingie, the sensor does not vibrate AFAIK. Like that other 
>>> Oly
>>> innovation, LiveView, I think it will become more or less standard on
>>> interchangeable lens cameras.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>> Alicante, Spain
>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>
>>> Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 3, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I used my M8 for two years and about 9000 frames with no difficulties
>>> with
>>>> routine cleans. This is nothing more than a procedural hiccup. I've 
>>>> found
>>>> one brand and method that's perfect for me. It doesn't do to stress over
>>>> this stuff!
>>>> I certainly wouldn't recommend that anyone not use their M or consider
>>> that
>>>> the need for sensor cleaning should deter anyone from using ANY digital
>>>> camera with interchangeable lenses.
>>>> My personal prefernce is for Leica's sensor and its very precise
>>> calibration
>>>> within the body rather than any vibrating system. ?Your cyclic rate may
>>>> vary, people ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Geoff
>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 March 2010 15:55, Jim Nichols <jhnichols at lighttube.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Much as I envy the M8/M9 users, these recent cleaning tales make me 
>>>>> more
>>>>> pleased every day that I am using a couple of Oly E-thingies. ?I am
>>> happy to
>>>>> keep things very simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Nichols
>>>>> Tullahoma, TN USA
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Wajsman" <
>>> photo at frozenlight.eu>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:46 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow, this sounds scary Geoff. I bet several doses of "blood pressure
>>>>>> medication" were needed during and after this process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because of tales like this, I have a simple rule: never put any liquid
>>> on
>>>>>> the sensor, never touch it with anything wet. I use Sensor Scope. The
>>> kit
>>>>>> does contain liquid and swabs but I have never used them; the little
>>> vacuum
>>>>>> cleaner has until now been adequate on my M8 and before that on my
>>> Canon
>>>>>> cameras. Of course, with Olympus I did not need any sensor cleaning
>>> thanks
>>>>>> to the built-in dust removal system. I wish Leica had the same thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:07 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a recent exchnge on and off list regarding cleaning the M9
>>> sensor.
>>>>>>> When I just cleaned mine ( which has not had heavy use), I was
>>> dismayed
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> find that I had persistent streaks, some of which looked alarmingly
>>> like
>>>>>>> fine scratches.
>>>>>>> I was confident that I had been careful. I used the Arctic butterfly
>>>>>>> brush
>>>>>>> first to remove any loose dust and then did a careful wet pass with
>>>>>>> Visible
>>>>>>> Dust Plus. I only had 1.3x size swabs.
>>>>>>> The streaks remained after 3 separate cleaning cycles with new swabs
>>> each
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> I repeated this all with the Dust Aid kit which uses swabs that you
>>> need
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> manually wind around the spatula and their fluid. Same result. My
>>> Leica
>>>>>>> dealer repeated this, same result.
>>>>>>> We could not budge the easily visible streaks although they were
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>> undetectable on test images at high magnification on a monitor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today I repeated the dry clean folowed by a wet clean with the 
>>>>>>> Eclipse
>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>> 3 (size) swab and their fluid. They no longer consider the E2 fluid
>>>>>>> necessary for tin oxide sensors and recommend their standard fluid 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>> sensor.
>>>>>>> A single pass in each direction completely removed every trace of the
>>>>>>> streaks and I am a happy camper. I believe that the streaks I had 
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> either traces of oil, possibly from the swab touching the surrounds 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> sensor (shutter lubricant??), drying marks from the fluids used 
>>>>>>> (qty?)
>>> or
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> combination of both.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I note that the Eclipse fluid contains methanol.
>>>>>>> Visible Dust fluid does not and they state that methanol can damage
>>> the
>>>>>>> seal
>>>>>>> of the covering bonded to the sensor.
>>>>>>> Leica recommends isopropyl alcohol.
>>>>>>> In any event I wanted to report my experiences. I'm sure that others
>>> will
>>>>>>> have had different experiences and views. Incidentally the Eclipse
>>> swabs
>>>>>>> actually cost even more here than the Visible Dust products so that
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> please those who considered I was skimping by trying the Dust aid
>>> swabs
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> my Visible Dust ones (M8 size) ran out!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


Replies: Reply from gregj_lorenzo at hotmail.com (Greg Lorenzo) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
In reply to: Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Sensor cleaning revisited)