Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/11/03

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Subject: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2011 22:32:47 -0400

Well its not as if there are that many pictures which cant be taken with an
1.8 that can be taken with a 1.4.

But with all this conversation I saw that I only have one 1.4 lens and
that's my 28. So I put that on tonight and it weighs a full pound and kept
thinking I'd bought apples or bananas and had them also in my bag and had
forgotten to take them out. It was really a lead weight.
Tomorrow I put on my 50 1.8 which weights a third of the 28 1.4.

-- 
Mark R.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


> From: Jim Nichols <jhnichols at lighttube.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:49:05 -0500
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
> 
> For sharper images, use the 55mm 1.8.  I have them both.  I find that
> sharpness trumps speed and bokeh in producing images that I am happy with.
> 
> Jim Nichols
> Tullahoma, TN USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "philippe.amard" <philippe.amard at sfr.fr>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?
> 
> 
>> Now some manufacturers - Pentax to name just one - had 50mm 1.4 and  55mm
>> 1.8 on their catalogues: which of these offered better bokeh or  faster
>> takes?
>> 
>> I'm so happy to have a full auto mode on my camera right now.
>> 
>> Philippe looking for aspirin and about to call Doctor Ted
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Le 3 nov. 11 ? 21:40, Herbert Kanner a ?crit :
>> 
>>> After this, the dead horse should stay dead.
>>> 
>>> While your mathematics is correct, I differ with your conclusions.  It
>>> relates to a distinction between "f numbers" and "stops". Agreed:
>>> reciprocal of the square of the f number is proportional to the  amount
>>> of light getting through. But the question was: "What  fraction of a stop
>>> is the difference between two f numbers?".
>>> 
>>> Now, the stops on a lens aperture ring are an arbitrary choice,
>>> general;y meaning a factor of two in exposure. So going, say three  stops
>>> toward smaller f numbers doubles the exposure three times, or  2 to the
>>> power 3. Now, let's think about this example of three  stops: f/4, f/5.6,
>>> and f/11, pretend we don't know that those three  numbers are engraved on
>>> the aperture ring, and ask: "How many stops  are the distance between f/4
>>> and f/11. First, realize that the  conventional set of stops aren't
>>> exactly a factor 2 in exposure  because the lens manufacturers in their
>>> wisdom wanted the f numbers  to not have more than two digits; who would
>>> like 3.99762 engraved on  their aperture ring? So, f/4 to f/11 is
>>> actually a change in  exposure of 7.5625, close enough to 8.
>>> 
>>> Next let's go backward, again pretending ignorance of aperture ring
>>> numbers, and ask how many "stops" change is f/4 to f/11. take 11/4  and
>>> square it, getting, as before, 7.5625. Take the logarithm (base  2) of
>>> 7.5625, and you get 2.918, which is the actual theoretical  number of
>>> stops, and close enough to the three notches on the ring.
>>> 
>>> That is the way I calculated the number of stops between 1.8 and 1.4.
>>> 
>>> How do you calculate log(base 2) of something. Just divide its  log(base
>>> 10) by log of 2 (base 10)
>>> 
>>> Herb
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Time to beat a dead horse!  If anyone is interested:
>>>> 
>>>> It is all geometry, namely the area of a circle.
>>>> 
>>>> For each f-stop, we have double the light.  The f-stop is related to
>>>> the size of the aperture, which is approximated as a circle.  The
>>>> amount of light coming is proportional to the circle's area, which
>>>> you may recall is pi times the radius squared, pi*r^2.  We use the
>>>> f# for the equivalent radius.
>>>> 
>>>> Thus, starting with f1, and r = 1, the area is pi*r^2 = pi*1*1 = pi,
>>>> as the relative amount of light.
>>>> 
>>>> For an amount of light 2*pi (next f-stop, double the light), pi*r^2
>>>> = 2 pi.  Divide both sides by pi, and you get r^2 =2.  r = the
>>>> square root of 2, or 1.414?  f1.4 is the next stop.
>>>> 
>>>> This is where the 1.4 factor George mentioned comes from; the square
>>>> root of 2 is 1.414.
>>>> 
>>>> Next f-stop, double the light again: pi*r^2 = 2*2 pi. r^2  = 4, f2
>>>> is the next stop.
>>>> 
>>>> So, if you want fractional stops:
>>>> 
>>>> 1/3 stop:   Square root of 1.333 = 1.15456
>>>> 1/2 stop:   Square root of 1.5     = 1.22474
>>>> 2/3 stop:   Square root of 1.667 = 1.29112
>>>> 
>>>> So going back to Mark's f1.4 example:
>>>> 1/3 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.15456 = f1.633 or f1.6
>>>> 1/2 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.22474 = f1.732 or f 1.7
>>>> 2/3 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.29112 = f1.828 or f1.8
>>>> 1 stop slower = 1.414 * 1.414 =  f2.0
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Matt
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 2, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I looked up f 1.8 vs. 1.4 thinking it was between a half and a
>>>> quarter of a
>>>>> stop and they are saying its 2/3rds!?!?! Anybody know that that's
>>>> true?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Where is there a photo calculator that tells you these things?!?!?
>>>> 
>>>> I always thought the basic math for 1 f stop revolved around a  factor
>>>> of 1.4.
>>>> 1.4 x 1.4 = 1.96
>>>> 1.8 / 1.4 = 1.29
>>>> 
>>>> so - yes - 2/3 would seem close enough for?
>>>> what? I'm not sure.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> George Lottermoser
>>>> george at imagist.com
>>>> http://www.imagist.com
>>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Herbert Kanner
>>> kanner at acm.org
>>> 650-326-8204
>>> 
>>> Question authority and the authorities will question you.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)
In reply to: Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] 1.8 vs. 1.4!?!?)