Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/05/19

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Subject: [Leica] Shocking: MM images do not look like film!
From: tgray at 125px.com (Tim Gray)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 13:01:23 -0400
References: <CBDCB5FE.1E6B6%mark@rabinergroup.com> <1DB782F9-74AC-4C80-A776-6731572AA09B@ameritech.net>

On May 19, 2012 at 07:38 AM -0400, Dante Stella wrote:
>Mark is right. We don't need "Salgadogram." People have wanted 
>grain-free high ISO monochrome pictures forever. And here it is. 
>Seeking to emulate (what everyone has always considered to be) 
>technical defects in film is regressive and disingenuous.

Mark is not right.  Mark has an opinion, which is a fine thing to have.  
I never realized that 'everyone' has always considered these things to be 
defects.  Everyone is a very inclusive term.  Who was the guy who shot 
vodka bottles with Scotch Chrome 1000?  Was he 'wrong'?  I wish I could 
remember his name, but he, and lots of others, have made careers using 
materials with 'technical defects' over ones with finer grain.

Heck, one only has to look at the mass popularity of Instagram (which 
was even referenced with 'salgadogram') to see that 'everyone' does not 
view all of those defects as undesirable.  I wish my product was worth 
$1 billion.  I guess all those people who use it are wrong, right?

I don't particularly find it regressive or disingenuous.  I personally find 
it 
easier to shoot Tri-X if I want the look of Tri-X, but if I want the 
convenience of digital, or any of the other advantages of digital, yet 
still want the look of Tri-X, then why not emulate?  Because Mark or 
Dante say it's bad?  And in the future, I might NOT find it easier to 
actually shoot Tri-X.

Guitar technology has gone through similar phases.  Many consider tube 
amps to offer more pleasing sounds.  Solid state amps didn't quite cut 
it.  Emulation got better, but it wasn't until digital modeling that the 
emulation got really good.  Many guitarists would still love to have a 
full Marshall stack full of glowing tubes, but that doesn't stop them 
from using any number of emulators to get the sound that they want.  
Sometimes without an amp in the chain at all, tube or solid state.  They 
can emulate the type of amplifier, the number of speakers in the 
cabinet, the type of cabinet (closed or open), and the placement of the 
mic.  It's pretty amazing stuff.  And don't even get me started 
convolution reverbs.  I guess if you want an echo based on a cavern for 
your movie, and you own a cavern, you shouldn't use it, right?

Isn't the end product the goal?  If you like getting there with film, 
use film.  If you like a grainy look reminiscent of T-Max 3200, and you 
get there in a way that is ok with (film or digital), that's great.  If 
you want a large dynamic range and low grain, does it really matter to 
me if you use pulled film in an 8x10 or go the HDR route with your 
medium format back?  No, it doesn't matter to me.


Replies: Reply from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Shocking: MM images do not look like film!)
Reply from lew1716 at gmail.com (Lew Schwartz) ([Leica] Shocking: MM images do not look like film!)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Shocking: MM images do not look like film!)
Message from dstella1 at ameritech.net (Dante Stella) ([Leica] Shocking: MM images do not look like film!)