[Leica] Toning vs. paper and print color.

[kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney)]

Right.  If I can ever figure out a way to really retire, I may rebuild the
darkroom with all new stuff.  Although, I suspect it would be my first love,
pt/pd prints made from digital negs by the latest sci-fi method.  A Nikon
D800 ought to be able to make a 16x20 neg with some cropping....I wonder
what a 16x20 pt/pd print would cost these days?  It was not exactly cheap
when I was making 8x10 contact prints.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+kcarney1=cox.net at leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+kcarney1=cox.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Marty
Deveney
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 6:37 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] Toning vs. paper and print color.

I still _really_ love the look of my Forte Polygrade V prints toned with
Dassonville D-55, but for Ilford MG V FB the colour in D-55 didn't please me
and I used the Ilford Selenium Toner or KRST instead, at half strength.

Inkjet prints have their own charm, but I still prefer both the subtle
gradations in colour and the surface texture of FB silver paper.

Marty


On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Ken Carney <kcarney1 at cox.net> wrote:
> OK, this drove me to my photo library (the part that is left in print, 
> that is).  In it I find a Kodak Photographic Notebook containing 
> several publications, including "Processing Chemicals and Formulas" 
> (first 1965 printing), $1.00).  In that I find my notes for favorite 
> films: TriX in Rodinal 1:100 in sodium sulfite solution, and Adox 
> KB-14 in Stockler two-bath developer.  My standard silver paper was 
> Seagull graded, toned in selenium, also Agfa Portriga toned in gold 
> toner.  Now life is much simpler in a way.  Epson 3880 printer in 
> advanced b&w mode, setting "dark", toning set to +3 in both directions 
> on the wheel.  Pretty much nails a neutral print without the need for 
> a RIP.  Plus I can have a Lagavulin, a risky venture in the darkroom.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+kcarney1=cox.net at leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+kcarney1=cox.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of 
> Mark Rabiner
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 3:09 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: [Leica] Toning vs. paper and print color.
>
> I just got  one my first photography books back from Portland Storage 
> last week its a real thrill I think I got my MOJO back for sure now.
> Its the Kodak Master Darkroom Dataguide $3.95 3rd edition first 1969 
> printing.
> http://s.ecrater.com/stores/108769/4c8ac0f969c3e_108769n.jpg
> In it under one tab its got paper samples.
> I remember they started talking about print color and paper color in 
> the first one I got just like this in 1964.
> I was as a 12 year old not happy to read this.
> Isn't this black and white photography we are talking about?
> Why do I have to know stuff about color if I'm doing black and white 
> here in my mothers laundry room? Well the paper samples in the book 
> themselves show some of the papers are yellowish and some are much 
> more white and are rather cool. The bromide papers.
>
>
> My main point is this.
> Toning does not add color to an otherwise black and white print.
> It just alters it. In many cases of course the color result from 
> toning makes for an image with much more apparent color than one which 
> is left alone.
> But for the most part toning is for making a print with a more refined 
> and better color than the paper image color.
> And in the last decades of darkroom work in the last half of the 
> century the toner which dominated was selenium. For the most part it 
> was Kodak Rapid selenium toner which was used a one or two ounces to a 
> quart for 3 or 4 minutes after two fixes and a hypo clear bath.
> And although it improved print color by getting the green out and 
> imparting a  subtle purplish tone to prints, bromide or chloride its 
> main reason for being used was permances. And it strengthened your blacks.
> A serious print collector or gallery would expect this. Prints without 
> a hint of green in it.  It was not optional.
>
> My detractors on the list may say this is my quirky opinion and 
> represents a convoluted approach to darkroom work.  Its not. Its darkroom
101. Maybe 201.
> And represented the way any serious printer in the past decades worked.
> Not commercial work and PJ's of course who printed on RC paper.
> But gallery stuff printed on fiber. And certain serious portrait work.
>
> My first darkroom Dataguide I think was dated 1965.
>
>
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photography
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>
>
>
>
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