Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]$3.5 K would not be acceptable for a APS-C camera, a FF camera would be another thing all together. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:00:36 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations I think Steve has it right. Unless the Mini proves to be a useable camera at an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally abandoned those of us looking for a practical tool in favor of the gifters and collectors. Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C sensor, a built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and microlenses on the sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image quality with or without an adapter. The anticipated price of about $3.5K would be in the acceptable range for me if the camera met the other criteria. Dick On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote: > > On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " tall >> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. >> Good >> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does well. >> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs that we >> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to >> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may value >> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you >> value Leica for the photographs you can make? > > If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who don't > make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of course it > is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I don't think that > you have answered my question. The short run is already surely impacted as > I have just noted. I was asking about the longer run. What does this model > predict in terms of future optical quality? > > I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm XE-1 > body, with a better experience and with better results than with the > latest Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already compromised, > and their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means that they are not > currently giving priority to the practical needs of professionals and > discriminating users. > > > Steve > > > >> >> >> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett >> >> Cheers >> Geoff >> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >> >> >> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Nathan, >>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was sure >>> of >>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so obvious >>>> - >>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the >>> positioning, >>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly >>>> obvious, >>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to spread >>> the >>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for them, >>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as >>>> Joseph >>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for the >>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as well). >>> It >>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the >>> last >>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - though I >>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, because as >>> in >>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic quality. >>>> It >>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in China >>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft the >>>> Russian market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As far as >>> I >>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, bar a >>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They just >>> do >>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big topline >>> hit. >>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be if >>> all >>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same time, >>>> as >>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. >>>> >>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out >>> sooner >>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. >>> >>> >>> Jayanand, >>> >>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal >>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound >>> rather >>> ominous. >>> >>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Jayanand >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography >>>>> business >>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people obviously >>> know >>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so that >>> the >>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that actually >>> are >>>>> interested in supplying photographers. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Nathan >>>>> >>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>> >>>>> YNWA >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. They >>> may >>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where their >>>>> profit >>>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for example, >>> Beijing >>>>> and >>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. >>>>>> >>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made for >>>>>> the >>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. >>> US$258,280. >>>>>> >>>>>> Joseph >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. 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