Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]When the first Leica M came out the IIIG was still in pr0duction for some years. Leica realized that there were people who just weren't going to go for a camera of that larger size form. Many think that when they upped their size form from the LTM to the M they were making a camera which was just too big to be a Leica... A camera which Barnack would not care for. I kind of agree with that. The last several times I did Leica shoots with was with my IIIF. I left my M's at home. I find the size and look of the Leica X2 to be supremely Leicalike. If it has a full sized sensor I'd be saving for it. In effect I think we're looking at just that with the new "mini". On 5/25/13 1:01 PM, "Richard S. Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> wrote: > Well, as others have said, it's hard to imagine Leica competing with > themselves so FF is not a starter, I think. Fuji and others have shown > what > can be done with APS-C so if the build and image quality with M lenses were > high, I might go for that price. > > > Dick > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 12:23 PM, grduprey at mchsi.com wrote: > >> $3.5 K would not be acceptable for a APS-C camera, a FF camera would be >> another thing all together. >> >> Gene >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Richard Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> >> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org> >> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:00:36 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >> Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations >> >> I think Steve has it right. Unless the Mini proves to be a useable >> camera at >> an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally abandoned those of >> us >> looking for a practical tool in favor of the gifters and collectors. >> >> Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C sensor, a >> built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and microlenses on the >> sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image quality with or >> without an >> adapter. The anticipated price of about $3.5K would be in the acceptable >> range for me if the camera met the other criteria. >> >> Dick >> >> >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote: >> >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " >>>> tall >>>> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. >>>> Good >>>> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does >>>> well. >>>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs that >>>> we >>>> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to >>>> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may >>>> value >>>> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you >>>> value Leica for the photographs you can make? >>> >>> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who don't >>> make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of course >>> it >>> is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I don't think that >>> you have answered my question. The short run is already surely impacted >>> as I >>> have just noted. I was asking about the longer run. What does this model >>> predict in terms of future optical quality? >>> >>> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm XE-1 >>> body, with a better experience and with better results than with the >>> latest >>> Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already compromised, and >>> their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means that they are not >>> currently giving priority to the practical needs of professionals and >>> discriminating users. >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Geoff >>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at >>>>> gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Nathan, >>>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was >>>>>> sure >>>>> of >>>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so >>>>>> obvious - >>>>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the >>>>> positioning, >>>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly >>>>>> obvious, >>>>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to spread >>>>> the >>>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for them, >>>>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as >>>>>> Joseph >>>>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for >>>>>> the >>>>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as >>>>>> well). >>>>> It >>>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the >>>>> last >>>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - though >>>>>> I >>>>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, because >>>>>> as >>>>> in >>>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic >>>>>> quality. It >>>>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in >>>>>> China >>>>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft >>>>>> the >>>>>> Russian market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As far >>>>>> as >>>>> I >>>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, bar >>>>>> a >>>>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They >>>>>> just >>>>> do >>>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big topline >>>>> hit. >>>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be >>>>>> if >>>>> all >>>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same >>>>>> time, as >>>>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out >>>>> sooner >>>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jayanand, >>>>> >>>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal >>>>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound >>>>> rather >>>>> ominous. >>>>> >>>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Jayanand >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at >>>>>> frozenlight.eu >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography >>>>>>> business >>>>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people obviously >>>>> know >>>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so that >>>>> the >>>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that actually >>>>> are >>>>>>> interested in supplying photographers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Nathan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> YNWA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. >>>>>>>> They >>>>> may >>>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>> profit >>>>>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for example, >>>>> Beijing >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made for >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. >>>>> US$258,280. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- Mark William Rabiner Photography http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/