Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/02/22

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Subject: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
From: red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 08:13:36 -0800
References: <27260333.1393040158349.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <024c01cf2f90$3bfa4fd0$b3eeef70$@verizon.net> <B84FC739-8534-4734-A630-5ED84FC0303B@gmail.com> <025401cf2f92$c79f24a0$56dd6de0$@verizon.net> <B4A14125-A3B4-458B-8205-99F090EE4A1D@gmail.com> <035901cf2fde$5aa76a00$0ff63e00$@verizon.net> <CAFfkXxsJm4bh5iEsJ8MF+ZWsZe+o=5orHeAJSxVMaEBuGMjHUA@mail.gmail.com>

Certainly during focusing, there is little computing going on other than
focus and metering... so certainly there is power available to do more
extensive focusing operations.... 

Until someone hacks the FW, I doubt we will know much more.....

I was just shocked about focusing at shooting aperture.... he last time I
HAD to do that was in the 60's, when my long 400mm f8 lens did not have auto
aperture, and shooting sports was nearly impossible with the preset aperture
rings....  With AF, it is a different animal all together....
But I really wonder to what advantage there is to native lenses when you
have an EVF that takes care of finder brightness, and AF that for native
lenses is done at shooting aperture...  It seems to be the same if you were
to use non-native lenses...  With the exception of AF itself.........

Frank Filippone
Red735i at verizon.net


-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of 
Sonny
Carter
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 7:22 AM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R

I was thinking about the event on the FE lenses where they focus at working
aperture, and at focus, they open about a half stop during the AF portion of
the program.

Perhaps the camera  compares the different depth of field at each aperture
to determine final calibration?  Most of the details needed to calibrate the
lens might be stored in the lens' chip at manufacture.

Judging from what I can see in the viewfinder when I have all the info
turned on, the camera is capable of considerable computing power.




On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Frank Filippone <red735i at 
verizon.net>wrote:

> The camera is open loop.... meaning that there is no comparison upon 
> which to base a standard for what is in focus during calibration.  In 
> real world terms, your eyes and brain decide what is actually in 
> focus.  So the camera, by itself, would not be able to do the 
> calibration.  ( why there really is a fine focus adjust feature in 
> higher end cameras.. camera AF is adjusted by the user to nail down 
> the precise focus location.
>
> If you used a computer and factory "machines" to do the calibration, 
> it would be relatively trivial to imbed the calibration data into the 
> lens ROM and have the camera access that info, perform modification to 
> the camera to produce "correct" focus .... if the camera is 
> calibrated....  which, even in the case of Leica, is not always 
> correct....
>
> In truth, the idea is a good one....  but requires the manufacturer to 
> calibrate each lens and embed the error-correcting-calibration, and 
> each camera body to a standard....and then to design FW to allow the 
> access and use of that data.....  Read all of that as extra cost, and 
> you get an idea of why it has not been done yet....
>
> If you go to the Sigma site, and read about their whoopee doo new 
> lenses ( I think they are the ART lenses), you will read about a 
> little gadget that allows each AF lens + camera to have its errors 
> embedded into the lens for correction upon use.....  The customer gets 
> to do the work.....  Cost is pretty mild, work time is a few minutes 
> per lens...  It is pretty close to your suggestion....
>
> Frank Filippone
> Red735i at verizon.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of 
> Sonny Carter
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:58 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
>
> So how can you know how it doesn't do it and not know how it does it 
> at the same time? ;-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Sonny Carter
> http://www.SonC.com/look
>
>
> > On Feb 21, 2014, at 11:56 PM, "Frank Filippone" 
> > <red735i at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > You would need a reference calibration somewhere...and to be honest, 
> > the camera does NOT know what is actually in focus and what is not....
> > it only knows what should be in focus.... it is an open loop system....
> >
> > Would you like to sit there at every F stop (and FL for a zoom) and 
> > calibrate the focus shift for every combination?
> >
> > This is a factory calibration, not a user calibration
> >
> > Frank Filippone
> > Red735i at verizon.net
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org
> > [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf 
> > Of Sonny Carter
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 9:49 PM
> > To: Leica Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R
> >
> > Couldn't the camera calibrate the lens? After all, it is an optical 
> > computer; what is one more task added?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > Sonny Carter
> > http://www.SonC.com/look
> >
> >
> >>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 11:37 PM, "Frank Filippone"
> >>> <red735i at verizon.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> That would require calibration of each lens ( maybe they all act 
> >> the same????)...
> >>
> >> I would think of this as a really good idea, but I also thought a 
> >> R10 was a really good idea......
> >>
> >> Frank Filippone
> >> Red735i at verizon.net
> >>
> >>
> >> Frank Filippone wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> If you are focusing at working aperture, what advantage is there 
> >>> to native lenses?
> >>>
> >>> I'm not so sure Sony has this thought out......
> >>
> >> For those who are interested in such things, native-mount lenses 
> >> will allow shutter-priority and program exposure modes, and AF.
> >>
> >> Another way to handle focus shift would be to program the lens to 
> >> tell the camera how much shift there is at various apertures.  
> >> Given this would be a native-mount lens the camera would know what 
> >> aperture the lens will be using.
> >>
> >> Doug Herr
> >> Birdman of Sacramento
> >> http://www.wildlightphoto.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
> >> information
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



--
Regards,

Sonny
http://sonc.com/look/
Natchitoches, Louisiana
1714
Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase

USA

_______________________________________________
Leica Users Group.
See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
In reply to: Message from wildlightphoto at earthlink.net (Doug Herr) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] OT - Sony Alpha 7R)