Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/02/25

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Subject: [Leica] OT - Fuji
From: scottgregory at mac.com (Scott Gregory)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:09:38 -0500
References: <CF325025.18AFC%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Hi Mark. Maybe so but the word is he dumped all his Canon equipment to get 
the money out before they go down in value. 

Scott

> On Feb 25, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Depends on what you mean by "went". Photographers tend to own and use a
> myriad assortment of cameras. Unlike many of us on the lug when the get 
> into
> a new camera system they do so by buying it. They don't trade for it.
> I could belive it because you say so,  Scott  but why not paste in a URL so
> I can see it with my own eyes?!?
> I'd guess Marc has probably under a hundred cameras he uses occasionally.
> My I politely say its unlikely his got rid of his full frame Canon EOS Mark
> system? And that I'd bet real money he shoots medium format digital a few
> times a year rented or otherwise. And to walk his dog he's got a Minox in
> his back pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2/25/14 7:37 AM, "Scott Gregory" <scottgregory at mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Mark one studio is World famous portrait photographer Marc Hauser in 
>> Chicago.
>> Went from Canon to Panasonic GH 3 recently. And they shoot JPEG for fast 
>> turn
>> around since the sensor is so good. Also another.reason is the quality of 
>> the
>> video since they are shooting those in studio as well.
>> 
>> Scott 
>> 
>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 11:58 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Really Scott which pro studies are trading in their full frame DSLR's for
>>> cropped?
>>> Problem is when the sensors get better so do the full frame sensors.
>>> And pros get very excited about the quality of their output going up; not
>>> down.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/24/14 6:31 PM, "Scott Gregory" <scottgregory at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Actually Mark that is exactly what is starting to happen in some 
>>>> studios!
>>>> Scott
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You're just not selling me on the idea that serious shooters or pros 
>>>>> are
>>>>> shooting 4/3's cameras. certainly a cameras does not need to be light 
>>>>> or
>>>>> tiny underwater. I cant think of any other convoluted reason.
>>>>> There is no logic to the idea that the line between 1.5x and 2x 
>>>>> formats has
>>>>> been somehow magically blurred.
>>>>> In general what is happening is not "the technology is advancing lets 
>>>>> more
>>>>> down in format" but quite the opposite.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/24/14 4:55 PM, "Jim Laurel (gmail)" <jplaurel at gmail.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If  you stop in at Glazers Camera here in Seattle (a "real" camera 
>>>>>> store
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> complete lines in stock at any given time and knowledgeable sales 
>>>>>> people),
>>>>>> you'll see that the largest number of people are always milling 
>>>>>> around the
>>>>>> mirrorless counters. Every time I walk in there, someone is fondling 
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> EM-5,
>>>>>> GX-7 or EM-1 and marveling at their handsome design and good handling.
>>>>>> Then
>>>>>> there's the look of disbelief on their faces when the salesperson 
>>>>>> hands
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> Panasonic's 12-35 (24-70 equiv) f/2.8 that weighs only 305 grams, or 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Olympus 12mm f/2 (24mm equiv) that weighs just 130 grams... Once you
>>>>>> educate
>>>>>> buyers and show them the alternative (i.e., a Canon 60D with the 
>>>>>> 24-70mm
>>>>>> f/2.8L), then let them take a few shots and look at them on a 
>>>>>> computer,
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> understand where things are going. ;)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --Jim
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Sonny Carter <sonc.hegr at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Another problem with REAL camera sales is so many REAL camera stores 
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> gone from the scene.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As far as I know there are only four camera stores left in all of
>>>>>>> Louisiana, all in New Orleans.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There's no inventory of serious choices at the Best Buys and Targets 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> have "replaced" them.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We're reaping what we sowed when we shunned the little camera stores 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> mail order.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Jim Laurel (gmail)
>>>>>>> <jplaurel at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> They are doing well in at least one area, albeit very niche area:
>>>>>>>> underwater photography. A couple of the major dealers in the 
>>>>>>>> country for
>>>>>>>> UW
>>>>>>>> photo and video gear tell me that m4/3 is outselling DLSR systems 6 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> 1.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The disappointing popularity of mirrorless in North America is due 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> uninformed consumers and also the fallacy that really good image 
>>>>>>>> quality
>>>>>>>> starts at APS-C. Already M4/3 is very hard to distinguish from 
>>>>>>>> APS-C for
>>>>>>>> most applications. And the fact remains that larger sensors mean 
>>>>>>>> larger
>>>>>>>> lenses. Neither of the top 2 manufacturers of APS-C DSLRs has ever 
>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> serious attempt at a high quality lens line for their cop sensor
>>>>>>>> cameras.
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about a full range of high speed primes and fast zooms, 
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> the users of APS-C cameras want really good glass, they're forced 
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> full frame lines. Only the m4/3 consortium have made a serious 
>>>>>>>> attempt
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> complete system with premium glass optimized for the smaller 
>>>>>>>> sensor. The
>>>>>>>> jewel-like Olympus 12mm f/1.8, the 75mm f/1.8, Panasonic 8mm 
>>>>>>>> fisheye and
>>>>>>>> 7-14 are the result. Extremely compact lenses of extremely high 
>>>>>>>> optical
>>>>>>>> quality.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It's funny to look back and remember all the prejudice against the
>>>>>>>> "small
>>>>>>>> format"  24mm x 26mm when it was first introduced. But as film 
>>>>>>>> quality
>>>>>>>> improved, so did the viability of the 135 format for almost every
>>>>>>>> application. The same will be true of sensors, only it will happen
>>>>>>>> faster,
>>>>>>>> and in 10 years' time, a lens the size and weight of Canon's 
>>>>>>>> 70-200mm
>>>>>>>> f/2.8
>>>>>>>> IS USM will look like quite the relic, while Panasonic's 35-100 
>>>>>>>> f/2.8
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be regarded as having been a harbinger of the future.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --Jim
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at 
>>>>>>>>> rabinergroup.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> And Panasonic.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It seems to the average western consumer a mirrorless is a step up 
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> they get with their Smartphone but they don't find it necessary to 
>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> step they are more conserved with getting the pix out of their 
>>>>>>>>> phones
>>>>>>>> onto
>>>>>>>>> their facebook or Instasgram or other social network galleries than
>>>>>>>> hanging
>>>>>>>>> a show on the wall of a gallery with exposed brick behind them.
>>>>>>>>> We have to be careful when we say "mirrorless" now as they seem to 
>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> two distinct form factors. The original flat ones which could also
>>>>>>>> emulate
>>>>>>>>> compact rangefinder cameras. And ones which look like DSLR'S which 
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> lightweight but too chunky to be called flat.
>>>>>>>>> The articles states Asian ladies like the mirrorless as they are 
>>>>>>>>> light
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>> to put in their purse. Western ladies don't see that?
>>>>>>>>> The bottom line from all I can see is how to get the publics smart
>>>>>>>>> phones
>>>>>>>>> out of their cold dead hands to take a picture or do anything with
>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>> else. One step up is not enough over here it seems it seems we 
>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> two steps up and make it a camera which really shoots a quality
>>>>>>>>> pictures
>>>>>>>> IE
>>>>>>>>> having a sensor at least 1.5x crop.
>>>>>>>> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/mirrorless-camera-sales-disappoint-2013-1>>>>>>>
> 2
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sonny
>>>>>>> http://sonc.com/look/
>>>>>>> Natchitoches, Louisiana
>>>>>>> 1714
>>>>>>> Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> USA
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>> Photographer
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>> Photographer
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photographer
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] OT - Fuji)
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