Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/04/14
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I used to run a software development group for a European mobile device manufacturer. Our apps shipped in hundreds of millions devices all over the world and connected to our service. Most of my team was in the US, but we also had a team in India. These were all guys from top technical universities, no doubt relieved that their talents afforded them the opportunity to earn a "useful" degree rather than something in the liberal arts. On a personal level, I liked them all very much, but working with them was difficult. Building software is an iterative process and, in the consumer software and services space, the final product almost never looks like the original spec. The architecture of some projects can be large and complex. Sometimes a spec can't be fully implemented due to unforeseen problems, dependencies or technical limitations. Often, you just run out of time. During the development process, you must adapt to market and technological changes to ensure your product is relevant when it ships. One of the things I quickly learned about our India team was they were more concerned about doing what they were told to do well, than doing what was right. You could hand them an obviously flawed spec and they would quietly spin their wheels and try to implement it. When they ran into a snag, they'd just bang their heads against the wall rather than coming back and saying "hey, we ran into this problem, it's going to be difficult and expensive to solve, so let's look for a better way". By contrast, the US team, which was a mix of tech and liberal arts graduates. None one of those people, and least of all the liberal arts people, would labor for very long on something they felt was stupid or just wrong. That's because they were more concerned about doing the "right thing" than doing what they were told to the best of their ability. The group program manager, an English major, would be the first to bang on my door and tell me that I'm an idiot. I appreciate that in anyone who works for me because, like any human being, I make mistakes. While the India team was made up of good, smart and talented people, their temperament was such that they'd happily go down a rat hole doing something that makes no sense at all as long as that's what the director has told them to do. -Jim Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 14, 2014, at 11:34, "Bill Pearce" <billcpearce at cox.net> wrote: > > Not to offend, jayanand, but my only experience with India is through > telephone banks, and those do not put a good face on your country. In the > US, the people who work for liberal arts degrees are not ones who take > second best, but are people who are sincerely dedicated to the values of > learning, and have in some cases carefully considered the employment > possibilities that will result. I have know many Liberal arts majors, and > not a one of them chose that because they couldn?t get into a science or > math program. That is, really, in US conditions, and insulting statement. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jayanand Govindaraj > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 3:31 AM > To: Leica Users Group > Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time > > Bill, > Well I am not an Engineering Graduate, though I am a Math/Statistics > graduate. I have been hiring people in campus interviews, lateral recruits, > freshers etc. since 1987, first for Citibank India and then for my own > company, all direct recruits into the management cadre. I think I have > enough experience to know what I am talking about - in fact in both cases, > for freshers, we were only worried about above average intelligence - the > banking/finance know how could easily be taught in a few months. I have > nothing against Liberal Arts majors, only the ones who opt for that stream > are those, in my experience, under Indian conditions, who could not get > admission in professional/commerce/science degree courses. Secondly, a lack > of math knowledge is a severe handicap in most manufacturing/services > management trainee type of jobs. YMMV. > Cheers > Jayanand > > >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> >> wrote: >> >> You may not know this, and most employers certainly don't, but Liberal >> Arts and Fine Arts majors make the best employees. They learn fast, and >> are >> not filled with useless ideas about how to get things done, and more >> easily >> adapt to change. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gmail >> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 10:13 PM >> To: Leica Users Group >> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: Sony Sucks, big time >> >> I was a liberal arts major (Econ) and have designed products and services >> that you very likely have used. Back in the 90s when I was at MSFT, there >> were loads of music majors writing code and even art history majors >> running >> product groups. The group program manager for the native apps on the >> original iphone was an English major. Many tech startup founders have >> liberal arts backgrounds. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 13, 2014, at 22:35, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Jim, But Liberal Arts majors are incapable of designing TVs or >>> manufacturing them in the first place! (-: So what is your point? >>> Cheers >>> Jayanand >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Jim Gmail <jplaurel at gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> That's what happens when the liberal arts are discarded in favor of more >>>> "practical" majors. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 20:19, Herbert Kanner <kanner at acm.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Nathan, >>>>> >>>>> You may just have been a victim of the fact that most engineers cannot >>>> write, whether it's in English or Japanese. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here's how I achieved fame in my department at Apple. A couple of guys >>>> "invented" a piece of software that gets independently invented at just >>>> about every company that writes software. The system controlled editing >>>> so >>>> that two or more people couldn't simultaneously make changes and step >>>> on >>>> each other's work. So, if one person "checks the software out" for >>>> editing, >>>> all others can get it on a read-only basis until the first person checks >>>> it >>>> back in. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I had to use this simple thing, and the write-up by it's authors was so >>>> damn unintelligible that I had to figure out how to work it by trial and >>>> error. After then using it, I just decided, on my own to write a manual. >>>> My >>>> boss was so impressed that I got an imaginative reward: three bottles of >>>> wine a month for a year. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Subsequently, I was picked to edit our release notes, which ultimately >>>> grew to about 350 pages. I had a great experience editing the writings >>>> of >>>> people, with a few exceptions, couldn't write. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Herbert Kanner >>>>> kanner at acm.org >>>>> 650-326-8204 >>>>> >>>>> Question authority and the authorities will question you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 1:44 AM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have never owned a Sony camera, and now I know for sure that I >>>>>> never >>>>> will. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> We just bought a 65-inch Sony Bravia TV, one of the latest models, not >>>>> cheap to put it mildly. Great picture, but we have struggling for 2 >>>>> days >>>> with the simple task (or should be simple) to connect a garden variety >>>> laptop to the TV using its wifi interface so that the TV in effect acts >>>> as >>>> a computer monitor, but without the clutter of HDMI cables and all that. >>>> The menus and instructions for Sony products were apparently originally >>>> written in Klingon, then translated into Japanese and then to English. >>>> And >>>> it appears that unless your computer is a Sony Vaio, you have to perform >>>> various unnatural acts. Everything Sony seems to be proprietary. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I think the TV is going back to the store (fortunately, we bought >>>>> locally), to be replace by a Samsung or LG. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Nathan >>>>>> >>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> YNWA >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information