Re: [Leica] Rodinal, FP4, Tri-X

[Alfred Breull <puma@hannover.sgh-net.de>]

At 16:59 08.03.1998 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm getting confllicting development times for Rodinal.  For a 1:50
>dillution, the box of Rodinal says 18 minutes (ASA 125).  On other
>sources the times are 8 1/2 to 12 and I don't know which one is the one
>to go by.  

Gabe, to answer your current question first: 

FP4, 125 ASA, temperature 20 deg C, 68 deg F:
Rodinal 1+25 = 9 minutes,
Rodinal 1+50 = 18 Minutes

I got several questions on my FP4/ Rodinal combination. I didn't forget
all of you, but I remembered 2 important mails from Tom Abrahams covering 
his extended Rodinal/ Tri-X  experiments which I was searching.

Both mails are copied in the end of this mail.

My own combination differs somewhat, because I prefer a certain type of 
b/w negatives and paper prints:

My negatives are "thin" and printed on warm-tone (brown-black) speed paper 
of "extra hard" grade/ gradiation, maybe maybe on "hard" paper. 

If I have a negative, which should be printed on "normal" or - even "more
bad" - on "special", it is for my intentions too tight/ thick/ dense (word?).

My paper developer is Eukobrom (fluid); I overexpose the prints about 
5 percent, and take them out after 1 1/2 to 2 minutes. Speed Fixation, 
no stop bath. Water: about one hour.

I expose FP4 on 200 ASA, and got my best results with the current 
Rodinal (red package) on

Temperature: 18 deg C, 64.5 deg F
Rodinal 1+20 to 22 = 9 minutes

Rodinal (blue package)
same temparture, same concentration (1+20 to 22), _but_ 10 minutes.

Hope it helps. With Tri-X I'm rather conservative, because it develops
very quick severe grain when pushed and Rodinal souped. Opposite, Tom
describes pretty good results. Here are both mails.


Here is the first message (Nov 97):


 Eric, I am a confirmed Rodinal user, although these days I also make my own
strange brews for Tri-X. Pushing Tri-X in Rodinal can be rewarding, but the
grain takes on a golfball sized structure. If you do it in Rodinal 1: 50 for
14 min at 70 degrees, it would be a starting point. If you find the grain too
disturbing, try adding a 100 grams of Sodium Sulphite/ 1000 ml of ready
developer. I.e 50 ml of Rod. and 950 ml of water in which you dissolved 100
grams of Sod. Sulphite. Agitate gently ( 2-3 inversions/min) and I usually do
not use a stop bath ( Rodinal is a "surface developer and the acid stop tends
to burn pinholes in the negs), just a 2 tankful water rinse and then fix as
usual. 
 I think that Rodinal is the oldest photographic product, in continious use.
available today. It was introduced in 1889!. I use it for reference
processing. When I have films I do not know anything about I usually run the
first roll in Rodinal 1:100/ 20 min and I can then extrapolate the correct
times from that. With films like Delta 100/ T-Max 100 and Agfa APX 100, you
get very sharp and easily printed negs with this combination ( rate the films
at 100ASA). I have even succesfully processed Neopan 1600 in Rod 1: 100/ 20
min. Very sharp, not fine grain but good compensation.
 The 1:100 doesn't work for pushing films, for that you need the 1:25 and 1:
50 dilutions. Good luck.
 Tom A


And here the second mail (Feb 98):

Richard, I have been using TRI-X since 1957 and probably developed it in just
about any configuration of chemicals available. I do a lot of playing around
with other films and somehow always come back to Tri-X. It is not a perfect
film, but it can always be printed. The Delta 400/Agfa APX 400/Neopan 400/HP5+
are all very good films, but they cant really do anything that Tri-x can't do.
 I use a divided D-76 with Borax as an alkali developer in the 2nd bath, cheap
and very good, not to temperature sensitive and virtually impossible to blow
the highlights with overdevelopment. I have reduced the Sodium Sulphite in the
A bath down to 50gram/1000 ml as I find that this gives me a tighter grain.
Excess of Sod/Sulphite mushes up he grain. I tried FG-7 but didn't like it for
my shooting. 
 The Tmax films are probably very good, but I have never gotten along with
them, they seem to be films for severely controlled light situation, studio
etc. In real life they tend to blow either the shadows or the highlights.
Murder to print.
 I use the Delta 100 for a lot of slow shooting, very good film and sharp as a
tack. Really shows off that expensive Leica glassware that we use.
 If I were you I would pick up some 100 ft rolls of Delta/Agfa/Fuji/ even Tmax
and shoot some tests and try them in some different developers. if nothing
else it keeps you shooting for the fun of it and it is educational. Some films
work very well, the Delta 400 is nice and tightgrained, the Agfa APX 400 is
too contrasty for me and the Fuji 400 is no match for the Fuji Neopan 1600
rated at 800.
 I have a standard test that I do on any film, I shoot it at manufacturers
rating and develop it in Rodinal 1: 100 for 20 min ( agitate twice/60 sec).
This gives me an overall view of the film and what it can do. the Rodinal
gives very sharp grain and reasonable contrast and printable negs. This
establishes a baseline for further experiments. I will load up 4-5 rolls in
cassettes, each a different film, shoot them all in a very short time, same
camera, same lens and run them in the rodinal 1:100/20min. It is amazing what
differences they will show. It is also easy to extrapolate the correct time in
some other developer this way. If your Tri-X looks good in this soup ( and it
will) any of the other films that needs more or less time can be adjusted for
use with the FG-7, by adding or subtracting time from your Tri-X times.
 I do these tests about once a year, run through 6-7 different films, 100 feet
of each, various developers, exposure indexes etc and then I normally sit back
and say" Well, the Tri-x is still my favourite and you cant go wrong with D-76
either" We might bitch at Kodak occasionally, but let us remember, they also
got somethings right and Tri-X is one of the things. Is it only me,or is it
something about Tri-X and Leica M's that is a particularly good match?
Tom A

Hope it helps
Alf
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