Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1999/06/02

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Subject: [Leica] "Demos" Final chapter
From: "delia" <louzan@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:51:58 -0000

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WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS PERSONAL OPINIONS WHICH MAY CAUSE =
TEMPORARY BLINDNESS.  VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED.

Just got off the phone with the department of consumer affairs, and here =
is the deal.
A refurbished item cannot -- repeat CANNOT -- be resold as a demo.   The =
store must warn you before purchase that it is refurbished, at least in =
the state of New Jersey.
So what Leica USA told Dave and Harrison isn't true.
You don't have to take crap from them. If you feel you have been =
deceived ,and the situation hasn't been resolved to your satisfaction, =
send an e-mail to Solms. If this doesn't work, file a complaint with the =
department of consumer affairs.  It may be the only way to get Leica USA =
to change this practice.
=20
- ------
=20
Pascal,
=20
Don't take it the wrong way --  I personally don't agree with his views =
on the subject, but believe me he didn't want anything but the best for =
the company. He left Leica because in his opinion the company wasn't =
moving in the right direction.  He thought the Japanese were always one =
step ahead.=20
A few of his designs are still being used today on the Leica M system =
and have been copied by another manufacturer, Mamiya.  He was highly =
regarded at Wetzlar -- if I recall they even gave him a pre-production =
MP.  Leica was part of his long and succesful career as a =
photojournalist/editor/consultant.
Personally, I think the Leica R8 is a great camera but not a landmark =
design -- and can hardly be called state of the art.
Some R lenses are outstanding but the same can be said for those made by =
Nikon, Canon, Contax ...
I belong to a segment of  users who uses Leica mainly because of the M =
cameras, and I also prefer the bokeh and color transmision of the older =
M lenses.  The new lenses are too sharp, razor sharp, and too contrasty =
,and some are not necessarily better than the old ones...  For instance, =
some retrofocus-type wide-angle lenses  Another example I've mentioned =
in the past is the old 50 mm elmar f3.5, which stopped down will =
frecuently outperform a lens of a more complex design on a sunny day -- =
optical correction and MC is of little help in this situation.=20
Leica right now has the chance to take away some Nikon and Canon =
costumers.  Even though their lenses are considerably more expensive =
than the competition, an R8 is about the same price as the top of the =
line bodies of its rivals in the US.  Whether they will take advantage =
of this situation remains to be seen.=20

Regards,
Robert=20

=20


=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS =
PERSONAL=20
OPINIONS WHICH MAY CAUSE TEMPORARY BLINDNESS.&nbsp; VIEWER DISCRETION IS =

ADVISED.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Just got off the phone with the =
department of=20
consumer affairs, and here is the deal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>A refurbished item cannot -- repeat =
CANNOT -- be=20
resold as a demo.&nbsp;&nbsp; The store must warn you before purchase =
that <U>it=20
is refurbished</U>, at least in the state of New Jersey.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So what Leica USA told Dave and Harrison isn't=20
true.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>You don't have to take crap from them. If you feel =
you have=20
been deceived ,and the situation hasn't been resolved to your =
satisfaction, send=20
an e-mail to Solms. If this doesn't work, file a complaint with the =
department=20
of consumer affairs.&nbsp; It may be the only way to get Leica USA to =
change=20
this practice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2>Pascal,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2>Don't take it the wrong =
way --&nbsp; I=20
personally don't agree with his views on the subject, but believe me he =
didn't=20
want anything but the best for the company. He left Leica because in his =
opinion=20
the company wasn't moving in the right direction.&nbsp; He thought the =
Japanese=20
were always one step ahead. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2>A few of his designs are =
still being=20
used today on the Leica M system and have been copied by another =
manufacturer,=20
Mamiya.&nbsp; He was highly regarded at Wetzlar -- if I recall they even =
gave=20
him a pre-production MP.&nbsp; Leica was part of his long and succesful =
career=20
as a photojournalist/editor/consultant.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2>Personally, I think the =
Leica R8 is a=20
great camera but not a landmark design -- and can hardly be called state =
of the=20
art.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Some R lenses are outstanding but the same can be =
said for=20
those made by Nikon, Canon, Contax ...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I belong to a segment of&nbsp; users who uses Leica =
mainly=20
because of the M cameras, and I also prefer the <FONT color=3D#000000=20
face=3D"">bokeh</FONT> and color transmision of the older M =
lenses.&nbsp; The new=20
lenses are too sharp, razor sharp, and too contrasty ,and some are not=20
necessarily better than the old <FONT color=3D#000000>ones...&nbsp; For =
instance,=20
some retrofocus-type wide-angle lenses&nbsp; Another example I've =
mentioned in=20
the past is the old 50 mm elmar f3.5, which stopped down will frecuently =

outperform a lens of a more complex design on a sunny day -- optical =
correction=20
and MC is of little help in this situation.</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Leica right now has the chance to take away some =
Nikon and=20
Canon costumers.&nbsp; Even though their lenses are considerably more =
expensive=20
than the competition, an R8 is about the same price as the top of the =
line=20
bodies of its rivals in the US.&nbsp; Whether they will take advantage =
of this=20
situation remains to be seen.</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Robert</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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