Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2001/12/26

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: [OT] Push & pull of neg film...
From: John Straus <Mail@SlideOne.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:51:55 -0600

Now are we talking about the same thing here? I mean if I talk about pushing
and pulling film I would compensate the processing as well. Or are you
saying that even with compensated development the results are poor...?

I will agree that the charachteristics of the film change dramatically when
pushing or pulling too much be I get useable negs. BUT I will say I have
never gone beyond 2 stops when pushing then adjust processing accordingly...

I'm just wondering if some comments are being made as in expose your film @
200, 320, 800 asa then just process as normal. Vs Truly pushing or pulling
and adjust processing. The first method is just over or under exposing not
really pushing or pulling...
- -- 
John 
Chicago, IL 
http://SlideOne.com
====================


on 12/26/01 1:12 PM, Mark Rabiner at mark@markrabiner.com wrote:

> "B. D. Colen" wrote:
>> 
>> XP2 is wonderful stuff, but based on personal experience, I'd advise
>> against pushing it to 800 - you can pull it to just about anywhere you
>> want, but I have found that at 800 it's just too damn tbin to be of much
>> real use. Maybe it's me, but I tend not to think so.
>> 
>> B. D.
>> 
>> <Snip> 
> 
> I'd advise against pulling it as well.
> I don't push nor pull my ColorNeg film.
> So i don't push nor pull my XP2.
> Which makes sense as it is basically with same stuff, Chromegic film
> only with one layer.
> My advise is treat your XP2 as thou treats your ColorNeg.
> I think that because i know there are a few people how DO push and pull
> their color neg and I'm not prepared to criticized their experience, it
> just don't work for me or most the people i know at the color rental lab
> i go to over the decades and have gotten an amazing amount of feedback
> from with everyone from a variety of background trying out the same
> technology…
> I think this because i know there are people who actually modify the C41
> formula with a modified first developer and so on.
> 
> Although we think of color film processing as a craft and not an art
> like in black and white there are people heavy enough into the chemistry
> end to modify the formulas and procedures of E6 and C41 and I'd guess
> they came up with superior results.
> Rodinal for a first developer or some such thing.
> 
> When  XP1 and Agfa's version of a chromegic monochrome film came out
> they both competed with each other with what an amazing innovation they
> both might be.
> "Shoot it at any ASA!" they said from 32 to 64000!!!!!!
> Well from what everyone i knew at the color lab quickly learned was that
> any over exposure at all of the stuff resulted in bulletproof negs. You
> turn your enlarger light on and go have lunch and hope the bulb didn't
> burn out.
> Any under exposure resulted in shadow detail that was left up to the
> imagination.
> 
> So my advise now is to expose it at 400 at least  as carefully as you
> expose black and white, probably more so.
> My "zone" system for color neg is a contracted version of my black and
> white zone system by one stop in either direction. I know some would disagree.
> In my black and white "zone" system i feel like i get 2 stops in either
> direction for detail. A five stop range.
> In ColorNeg and chromegic i feel like i get one stop in either
> direction: A 3 stop range.
> So if i was shooting a bunch of charcoal brickets I'd stop down one if
> by chromegic; two if by black and white.
> A pile of white linen I'd open one if by chromegic, two if by black and white.
> If my white linin was F16 and my charcoal brickets read F5.6 then one of
> em's gotta go or i switch to real black and white film.
> That's how i pre see it.
> 
> 
> Mark Rabiner
> Portland, Oregon USA
> http://www.markrabiner.com
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Replies: Reply from Marc Attinasi <marc@attinasi.org> (Re: [Leica] Re: [OT] Push & pull of neg film... And Scala Query)