RE: [Leica] Autofocus Leica R, Now Art in the Dark

[Henry Ting <henryting10@yahoo.com>]

Here's my problem....my perception is based on vision,
now can I have the same perception as someone without
vision ?

- --- Kit McChesney | acmefoto <kitmc@acmefoto.com>
wrote:
> George--
> 
> Yes, all these are great questions, absolutely.
> Don't you love asking them,
> and thinking about them, and talking to others about
> them? And yes, I
> understand what you mean by outlining the difference
> between someone who has
> had sight in the past, but may have lost it, and
> someone who has had no
> conventional sight since birth. Of course. The same
> with music, and the
> example of Beethoven. There is also memory of what
> has been seen with the
> eyes to consider, for sure.
> 
> Would Ludwig have created if he'd been deaf since
> birth? An unknown, for
> sure. How can we know? But there are also people who
> may create music never
> having heard it. And it could be very compelling to
> hear, don't you think?
> The same for someone who has never "seen." They may
> create images that are
> equally compelling to view. My point is only that
> let's not decide that a
> creation by a person who cannot perceive the end
> result in the same way that
> anyone else can perceive it should be discounted as
> serious work. The
> creative process more complex than this, as I'm sure
> you'll agree. It is,
> for the most part, and most creative people agree,
> mysterious.
> 
> The analogy of the writer rewriting is an
> interesting point. As a writer I
> can say that the process of writing is not always
> one in which a person puts
> down a sentence expecting it to be perfect the first
> go-round, and finds to
> his or her disappiontment that it did not spring
> fully formed onto the page,
> needing no further work. (Though this is what many
> college students believe;
> they look at a page of published text and think that
> the writer put the
> sentence down the first time just as they see it
> printed. That's one reason
> it's so hard to teach writing). But again, there are
> writers who have
> written marvelous work who do not revise; I don't
> believe we can always
> predicate the "success" of an artist's work upon
> whether he or she needed
> critiques to learn to "improve," to get "better." 
> That somehow the thing
> created isn't good unless it's been worked over.
> Sometimes a beautifully
> formed image springs out of the blue. Or a phrase.
> Or a picture. I think
> that if we are tuning ourselves to the spheres and
> to our intuition, we are
> graced with the gift of a creation that astounds us.
> I'm sure we've all
> experienced that ... looking at a drawing we've
> made, or a sentence written,
> a picture in the developing tray, and said, "Who did
> that?" That is actually
> one of the most ecstatic moments of creation, I
> think, to realize that we
> are getting help from somewhere, because we are open
> to it. Artists and
> musicians often report that they don't know where
> the images or songs they
> sing come from ... that they feel they are channels
> for something higher.
> The Creative Force that drives all? I'd bet my Leica
> on it.
> 
> As for how images are created, not every visual
> image is created based upon
> an interaction between the eyes and something else
> visual. Many artists find
> their inspiration for visual creations in purely
> non-visual sources, like
> music, for example. And many artists have suffered
> greatly because others
> were unable to understand the images they'd created,
> because they "didn't
> look like" anything anyone had ever seen. Yet those
> images have
> revolutionized the way we see the world. Photography
> has had a huge
> influence on the other visual arts, like painting,
> but the relationship goes
> in the other direction as well.  A "picture" need
> not be a "picture" of
> another image. Not at all. And likewise, many
> musicians find their
> inspiration in sources non-musical. Which also begs
> the question, "Are the
> differences between media all that significant?"
> Maybe not. There is an
> artist whose work is housed in the Prinzhorn
> Collection in Switzerland, who
> created mountains of detailed colored drawings for
> decades, who, when
> finished with each one, rolled the drawing into the
> shape of horn and
> created music he said was what he had drawn on the
> sheets of paper. Point
> being that we must, I believe, always push ourselves
> to expand beyond the
> limits of where we think we can go, what we think we
> can do, what we believe
> we can see. That's all I'm trying to say.
> 
> As for animals typing novels, that I won't put in
> the same category as a
> deaf musician or a blind artist. Logically, those
> don't fit ... "one of
> these things doesn't belong ..." I am talking about
> creation by a human
> being, with a human imagination. I wouldn't deign
> nor dare to equate a
> novel-typing animal with a human being's creation,
> regardless of his or her
> abilities, be they conventional, or different.
> 
> And yes, marveling at the exceptions, as you say, is
> the joy in being alive.
> Marveling at everything. That's why we take up our
> pencils, our cameras, our
> paintbrushes, our guitars and pianos and dance
> across the stage. It's all a
> miracle.
> 
> With very fond regards, too. :)
> 
> Kit
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On
> Behalf Of George
> Lottermoser
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:54 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: RE: [Leica] Autofocus Leica R
> 
> 
> kitmc@acmefoto.com (Kit McChesney | acmefoto)3/13/03
> 
> > What difference does age make?
> > Or if the person was blind from birth?
> 
> Well, I find the entire discussion of blind
> photographers, deaf musicians,
> animals typing novels, et al rather amusing. And so
> I ask my amused self,
> "If
> Ludwig von were deaf from birth would he have
> composed music?"
> 
> I've engaged my blind friend (lost his sight in a
> boat racing accident when
> 18)
> in this rather amazing discussion. He thought it
> would make a difference.
> And I
> can "see" why. He believes that his mental imagery
> is significantly
> different
> (and photographic in some sense) than someone blind
> since birth.
> 
> And I can imagine that if I lost my sight (currently
> 56) I could fairly
> easily
> and probably would exercise my 35 years of
> professional visual experience in
> directing things as Johnny has suggested. While my
> blind young friend,
> without
> the experience, would have signigicantly more
> difficulty in doing so.
> 
> I fully accept all exceptions to all rules and
> conventional guidelines.
> However,
> the specifics of age and experience would have to
> impact the intentions as
> well
> as the results.
> 
> >Since
> >images are themselves "created" in the mind anyway,
> is the ability to
> >visualize predicated on having had conventional
> sight, that is, using
> 
=== message truncated ===


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