Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/07/25

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Fwd: Re: LUG metallurgist
From: Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:45:01 -0700
References: <20030725175725.56181.qmail@web12704.mail.yahoo.com> <8126375318.20030725215915@umich.edu>

Kurt

Maybe you should inform your "LUG metallurgist" that there never has been
any titanium bodied Leicas ever sold.  I have only owned one titanium
bodied camera, a Nikon F2T, though I understand that there was another
Japanese SLR with a real Ti body made.

(I can just see all all you LUGers cutting out pieces from the bottoms of
their Ti Leicas and sending them in for analysis!)  :-)

Jerry

khmiska wrote:

> This is a forwarded message
> From: Marvin Zhou <marvinlzhou@yahoo.com>
> To: khmiska <khmiska@umich.edu>
> Date: Friday, July 25, 2003, 10:57:25 AM
> Subject: LUG metallurgist
>
> ===8<==============Original message text===============
> All the questions can be easily answered if there is
> someone willing to cut off a tiny piece from the
> bottom of his Ti Leica so I can take a look at the
> microstructure and do some simple composition
> analysis.
>
> You are right due to all kinds of problems Ti is hard
> to electroplate reliably. Frankly pure Ti is gray and
> the Ti Leica look yellowish so at least I can safely
> say that the surface is NOT pure Ti.
>
> I've seen TiN and TiOx based jewlry from China and
> they have all kinds of colors depending on their
> thickness so the sandy yellowish tint on the Ti Leica
> is entirely possible using these coatings on the
> surface(TiN is pretty hard too) on another substrate
> material (Aluminum, for example).
>
> Evaporation techniques are certianly doable. But it's
> costly (vacuum) and it will be hard to avoid shadow
> effects. This can't be ruled out of course, as Ti
> Leica is very expensive.
>
> Then there are the traditional forming techniques,
> stamping, casting, etc, which are quite difficult but
> doable for Ti-based alloys. And don't forget powder
> metallurgy. The fine grained, sandy surface of the Ti
> Leica reminds me of a hydrostatically compressed metal
> powder piece prior to any finishing. Oxidation is
> always a big enemy for Ti, but an inert processing
> environment is not that hard to get and maintain.
>
> Basically I can't definitively rule out anything
> unless taking a look at the microstructure. My guess
> is that Leica is not that low yet to *not* use any Ti
> alloys when making Ti Leica. I don't see any real
> advantage in using Ti alloys. Yes it will be stronger
> yet light but we are not talking about life-saving
> titanium armor or submarines or wing spars.
>
> I've seen credit card companies marketing Titanium
> cards as one level above Platimum cards. They must
> have done some marketing research and found that
> somehow the general populace associates titanium as
> something even more precious or "noble".
>
> Later,
> L.
>
>
>
> --- khmiska <khmiska@umich.edu> wrote:
> > Mr. Zhou,
> > Thank you for responding.
> >
> > There has been much back and forth on the LUG about
> > the so-called
> > titanium Leica M6. Some claim it is titanium plated.
> > Some say it's
> > something akin to anodizing and some say it actually
> > titanium. Quite
> > frankly, I don't believe any of these.
> >
> > I was an editor at the long-defunct Materials
> > Engineering magazine and
> > have enough metallurgical knowledge so that, again,
> > I don't belive any
> > of these statements.
> >
> > You can't electroplate out titanium, right?
> >
> > YOu can't use the anodizing process, right?
> >
> > Yes, you could, theoretically, machine the camera
> > from titanium or a
> > titanium alloy but it would be a very, very
> > expensive process in such
> > small quantities, what with special cutting tools
> > and all.
> >
> > Now, I believe you could coat the camera with
> > elemental titanium using
> > PVD or CVD, right? Again, aren't those very costly
> > processes used
> > primarily for electronic components?
> >
> > So, in your opinion, how did Leica make the Ti Leica
> > M6 and other than
> > appearance, what advantage, if any, is there to
> > this? I can't think of
> > any other than that Leica is laughing all the way to
> > the bank.
> >
> > Cordially
> >
> > Kurt Miska
> > --
> > Kurt H. Miska
> > GERMAN BUSINESS TRANSLATIONS
> > Ann Arbor, Michigan
> > khmiska@umich.edu
> > http://www-personal.umich.edu/~khmiska/
> >
>
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> ===8<===========End of original message text===========
>
> Gentlemen,
> Dr. Zhou is a PhD metallurgist and the attached msg is in response to
> my questions about the so-called titanium Leica. He has given me
> permission to forward the msg but he requests that we excuse his
> English.
> Cordially
> Kurt
>
> --
> Kurt H. Miska
> GERMAN BUSINESS TRANSLATIONS
> Ann Arbor,Michigan
> khmiska@umich.edu
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~khmiska/
>
> --
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Replies: Reply from khmiska <khmiska@umich.edu> (Re[2]: [Leica] Fwd: Re: LUG metallurgist)
In reply to: Message from khmiska <khmiska@umich.edu> ([Leica] Fwd: Re: LUG metallurgist)