Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/12/05

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Subject: Re: [Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses
From: Eric Welch <eric@jphotog.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:52:30 -0800
References: <E99B16C4-26E7-11D8-9384-0003938C439E@btinternet.com> <11FDD418-26EF-11D8-90AA-003065D6E648@umich.edu> <DB6E1160-26F5-11D8-B6ED-000A958F513A@jphotog.com> <B8F767AC-2717-11D8-90AA-003065D6E648@umich.edu> <3FD08DFA.9E552729@rabinergroup.com> <30D153D2-2732-11D8-B6ED-000A958F513A@jphotog.com> <3FD13CBE.D0531EF@rabinergroup.com>

You would lose that bet. John Sexton was one of Kodak's main 
consultants on their films. And they tuned the films based on his 
experience with them. I was also a beta tester of TMY, TMX and P3200 
for Kodak. One interesting point he made was that TMax developer has 
such great longevity that even at high dilutions he was able to process 
his film in full tanks, rather than in tanks with only half the number 
of rolls they normally take, like would have to be done with dilute 
HC-100 or D-76 or whatever.

His prints are gorgeous for a very good reason. He's a master of the 
medium. There is no magic to it. If you do what he does, you'll get the 
same results he will (technically, not necessarily aesthetically). 
Check out his book "Places of Power" where he used his special 
techniques. You have to be very careful with low dilution processing. 
Sexton uses a Jobo Processor and temperature controls it. I also always 
used temperature control with my black and white film. But then I 
usually processed it at Kodak's recommendation for optimum quality - 75 
degrees for TMY and TMX and 85 for P3200. Not ideal for processing at 
room temperature without any temperature control.

On Dec 5, 2003, at 6:19 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:

> Ultra low dilutions and exotic highly toxic developing agents stretch
> the range of a neg way past a point where the neg was designed to
> operate. Kodak and Ilford did not test Tri X  or TMY in such a 
> treatment
> to make sure you could get 15 stops with it I'll be willing to bet.

Eric Welch
Carlsbad, CA
http://www.jphotog.com

His bad opponent's "facts" he sweeps away,
And drags his sophistry to light of day;
Then swears they're pushed to madness who resort
To falsehood of so desperate a sort.
Not so; like sods upon a dead man's breast,
He lies most lightly who the least is pressed.
                                                         Polydore Smith

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Replies: Reply from Mark Rabiner <mark@rabinergroup.com> (Re: [Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses)
In reply to: Message from Frank Dernie <Frank.Dernie@btinternet.com> (Re: [Leica] Thom Hogan's photo predictions for 2004)
Message from Dante Stella <dante@umich.edu> ([Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses)
Message from Eric Welch <eric@jphotog.com> (Re: [Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses)
Message from Dante Stella <dante@umich.edu> (Re: [Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses)
Message from Mark Rabiner <mark@rabinergroup.com> (Re: [Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses)
Message from Eric Welch <eric@jphotog.com> (Re: [Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses)
Message from Mark Rabiner <mark@rabinergroup.com> (Re: [Leica] 35mm color vs. the tyranny of the masses)