Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/03/24

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Subject: [Leica] bill dilution H.
From: wharting at verizon.net (bill harting)
Date: Thu Mar 24 19:18:56 2005
References: <2867578BB7767E45B3C9E3CBA9C5A65F96FF51@smskpexmbx3.mskcc.root.mskcc.org>

Thank you, Chris. After replying earlier I went to look at your webpage and 
saw all the detail you had about various HC110 dilutions and densities. All 
I have is a composition book with notes to add a minute or take a minute 
away. Almost all of my shooting is low light, so I am more interested in 
pushing a little rather than dealing with sunlight and shadow. One example 
is
http://gallery.leica-users.org/album15/Eastham_copy
in which I use my regular sunlight speed of about 250 for Tri X, the same 
rating I use for studio/strobe stuff. I am trying to digest all that you've 
written. I recall Daniel's note about the dilution/contrast link, but have 
not pursued it.

And I'll pay more attention.

bill h


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics" <saganicc@mskcc.org>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Leica] bill dilution H.


> Thanks Bill,
>
> I tested some triX last year in dilution H. I found ASA 160 to be optimal 
> for this dilution if you want good shadow detail, but ASA 320 was only a 
> stop difference. I never finished the testing but I am about to start 
> using Trix and HP5 soon, this weekend.
>
> Currently I'm only using FP4 ASA 100 in HC110, 1:42 dilution which is 
> close to Dilution D, (I just started mixing 12ml per 500ml for 
> convenience).  I generally run at 70F for 9.5 minutes light agitation, 5 
> seconds per minute.  I can get a good density range for grade 2 and 3 
> paper with this combination.  I made a lot of tests based on Dan Ridings 
> suggested that development time and dilution might be linear.
>
> Looking over my FP4 testing today after your reply I see 2 good data 
> points to test Dan's suggestion.  A 1:33 dilution at 4.75 minutes and a 
> 1:42 dilution for 7.5 minutes gave me the same density range for FP4 (1.21 
> between zone I and VIII.)  Projecting a straight line down to 1:67 
> (dilution H) gives roughly a time of 12.25 minutes.  So if dilution and 
> development time is linear I should get the same density from FP4 dilution 
> H (7.5 ml concentrate) at 12.25 minutes.
>
> The linear graph is interesting, (yes I just made a graph), because it 
> approximates a slope of -1 which suggests that that Time + ml of 
> concentrate must approximate the intercept for that density range.  This 
> suggests that with one good data point one could project the dilution and 
> development time for any contrast range assuming the slope doesn't vary 
> too much at the extremes.
>
> For Example:  For FP4 I run 9.5 minutes using 12ml concentrate for a 
> density range of 1.26 between Zone I and VIII.  With an assumed slope of 
> negative 1 the intercept is 21.5.  So any combination as long as it is 
> close to 21.5 should give me similar contrast range.  So if I want to use 
> a dilution of 7.5 ml concentrate the time would be 14 minutes.  For 
> Dilution B at 15ml the time would be 6.5 minutes for the same density 
> range.
>
> If you eyeball the increase in contrast range between 12.25 
> minutes(range=1.14 between zones I-VIII) minutes and 14 minutes (range of 
> 1.26 between Zone I and VIII) it is about one stop or one zone shift to 
> the left.  Just about right.  This is great is it holds experimentally.
>
> Bill you may be my muse I'm glade you asked!
>
> Chris
> (212) 639-7391
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org 
> [mailto:lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of bill 
> harting
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:59 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] bill dilution H.
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> My approximate normal time for TriX at 800 is diultion H at 11 minutes, 75
> degrees.  I had an odd accident, though, in this processing. I did two 
> rolls
> in one can, and a single roll of 120 from something else in another, and I
> accidentally unthinkingly mixed the HC110H at half strength, so Pedro, 
> John
> and Bob were developed in HC110 at a dilution of one-quarter ounce syrup 
> to
> 1000cc. I wondered why they were so thin. But yet apparently not too thin 
> (I
> have not printed them yet). Mark was developed separately later in a two
> reel can, and I had my oh-shit moment when was pouring the syrup and
> realized what I had done on the first two rolls. So I went ahead with the 
> 11
> minute time; these negs look normal and fine.
>
> So what does this tell me? I won't know until I print, but HC110 even 
> wicked
> diluted seems to keep working. I won't try that again, though. Your
> experiences?
>
> bill h
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics" <saganicc@mskcc.org>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:44 PM
> Subject: RE: [Leica] bill H.
>
>
>> Bill,
>> What time, temp are you using for the dilution H?
>>
>> Christopher Saganich
>>
>> (212) 639-7391
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org
>> [mailto:lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Peter
>> Dzwig
>> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:15 PM
>> To: Leica Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Sound missing
>>
>> bill harting wrote:
>>
>>> Tuesdays a pickup jazz group plays at my local coffee shop --  a lot for
>>> talent for the price of a cup of coffee. Here are this week's players.
>>> M3 90/2.8 TriX HC110h most shot at f2.8 to f4
>>>
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/album20?page=2
>>>
>>> all opinions welcome
>>>
>>> bill h
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>> Like all of them Bob. The expression on Pedro's face is great. The photo
>> of
>> Mark, although blurred conveys a lot about him, his playing and his mood.
>>
>> Thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Peter Dzwig
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>>
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In reply to: Message from saganicc at mskcc.org (Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics) ([Leica] bill dilution H.)