Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/03/25

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Subject: [Leica] bill dilution H.
From: saganicc at mskcc.org (Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics)
Date: Fri Mar 25 10:12:23 2005

The paper was Forte warm-tone which went belly-up recently.  I haven't seen 
much color shift with the Ilford fiber normal tone.  I noticed that getting 
a good quality scan isn't easy and there isn't much relationship between a 
good scan and a good print in my limited experience.  I'll be using one of 
the Christo shots for the next exchange.  I've already managed a good 
working print without much trouble.

Christopher Saganich

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org 
[mailto:lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of bill 
harting
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 12:12 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] bill dilution H.

I'm printing those jazz pictures today, so I'll see how those negatives do 
in what is still my real world, the darkroom. I was pleased that they 
scanned so well, though...  Your sunlight/Christo pictures seem to be right 
on with lots of what I try to get in sunlit shadows. Incidentally, the girl 
getting married pictures I posted earlier this week were also the 800/11 min 
75 degrees. You also probably have noticed that my mixing ratios (1/2 ounce 
syrup/water to make 1 litre) is also somewhat bastardized, but it is my 
routine ratio...

Also, inspired by your Flying Saucer Cafe picture, I tried selenium toning, 
but got no color shift on Polymax Fine Art. Today I am going to print some 
Ilford Warmtone to see what happens.

bill

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics" <saganicc@mskcc.org>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Leica] bill dilution H.


> The low light shots are right on as far as exposure and development goes, 
> which is why I wanted to find out your process.  I also do a lot of low 
> light shooting but haven't managed too well at asa 100 in low contrast 
> situations.  When I saw your process time and temp I was impressed I 
> suppose I'm timid when it comes to pushing film.  According to your 
> results I'll run triX at 800, 75F but use my dilution 12:500 and adjust 
> the time down to 6.5 minutes.
>
> Christopher Saganich
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org 
> [mailto:lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of bill 
> harting
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:19 PM
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] bill dilution H.
>
> Thank you, Chris. After replying earlier I went to look at your webpage 
> and
> saw all the detail you had about various HC110 dilutions and densities. 
> All
> I have is a composition book with notes to add a minute or take a minute
> away. Almost all of my shooting is low light, so I am more interested in
> pushing a little rather than dealing with sunlight and shadow. One example
> is
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/album15/Eastham_copy
> in which I use my regular sunlight speed of about 250 for Tri X, the same
> rating I use for studio/strobe stuff. I am trying to digest all that 
> you've
> written. I recall Daniel's note about the dilution/contrast link, but have
> not pursued it.
>
> And I'll pay more attention.
>
> bill h
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics" <saganicc@mskcc.org>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:55 PM
> Subject: RE: [Leica] bill dilution H.
>
>
>> Thanks Bill,
>>
>> I tested some triX last year in dilution H. I found ASA 160 to be optimal
>> for this dilution if you want good shadow detail, but ASA 320 was only a
>> stop difference. I never finished the testing but I am about to start
>> using Trix and HP5 soon, this weekend.
>>
>> Currently I'm only using FP4 ASA 100 in HC110, 1:42 dilution which is
>> close to Dilution D, (I just started mixing 12ml per 500ml for
>> convenience).  I generally run at 70F for 9.5 minutes light agitation, 5
>> seconds per minute.  I can get a good density range for grade 2 and 3
>> paper with this combination.  I made a lot of tests based on Dan Ridings
>> suggested that development time and dilution might be linear.
>>
>> Looking over my FP4 testing today after your reply I see 2 good data
>> points to test Dan's suggestion.  A 1:33 dilution at 4.75 minutes and a
>> 1:42 dilution for 7.5 minutes gave me the same density range for FP4 
>> (1.21
>> between zone I and VIII.)  Projecting a straight line down to 1:67
>> (dilution H) gives roughly a time of 12.25 minutes.  So if dilution and
>> development time is linear I should get the same density from FP4 
>> dilution
>> H (7.5 ml concentrate) at 12.25 minutes.
>>
>> The linear graph is interesting, (yes I just made a graph), because it
>> approximates a slope of -1 which suggests that that Time + ml of
>> concentrate must approximate the intercept for that density range.  This
>> suggests that with one good data point one could project the dilution and
>> development time for any contrast range assuming the slope doesn't vary
>> too much at the extremes.
>>
>> For Example:  For FP4 I run 9.5 minutes using 12ml concentrate for a
>> density range of 1.26 between Zone I and VIII.  With an assumed slope of
>> negative 1 the intercept is 21.5.  So any combination as long as it is
>> close to 21.5 should give me similar contrast range.  So if I want to use
>> a dilution of 7.5 ml concentrate the time would be 14 minutes.  For
>> Dilution B at 15ml the time would be 6.5 minutes for the same density
>> range.
>>
>> If you eyeball the increase in contrast range between 12.25
>> minutes(range=1.14 between zones I-VIII) minutes and 14 minutes (range of
>> 1.26 between Zone I and VIII) it is about one stop or one zone shift to
>> the left.  Just about right.  This is great is it holds experimentally.
>>
>> Bill you may be my muse I'm glade you asked!
>>
>> Chris
>> (212) 639-7391
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org
>> [mailto:lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of bill
>> harting
>> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:59 PM
>> To: Leica Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] bill dilution H.
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> My approximate normal time for TriX at 800 is diultion H at 11 minutes, 
>> 75
>> degrees.  I had an odd accident, though, in this processing. I did two
>> rolls
>> in one can, and a single roll of 120 from something else in another, and 
>> I
>> accidentally unthinkingly mixed the HC110H at half strength, so Pedro,
>> John
>> and Bob were developed in HC110 at a dilution of one-quarter ounce syrup
>> to
>> 1000cc. I wondered why they were so thin. But yet apparently not too thin
>> (I
>> have not printed them yet). Mark was developed separately later in a two
>> reel can, and I had my oh-shit moment when was pouring the syrup and
>> realized what I had done on the first two rolls. So I went ahead with the
>> 11
>> minute time; these negs look normal and fine.
>>
>> So what does this tell me? I won't know until I print, but HC110 even
>> wicked
>> diluted seems to keep working. I won't try that again, though. Your
>> experiences?
>>
>> bill h
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Saganich, Christopher/Medical Physics" <saganicc@mskcc.org>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:44 PM
>> Subject: RE: [Leica] bill H.
>>
>>
>>> Bill,
>>> What time, temp are you using for the dilution H?
>>>
>>> Christopher Saganich
>>>
>>> (212) 639-7391
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org
>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+saganicc=mskcc.org@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Peter
>>> Dzwig
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:15 PM
>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Sound missing
>>>
>>> bill harting wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tuesdays a pickup jazz group plays at my local coffee shop --  a lot 
>>>> for
>>>> talent for the price of a cup of coffee. Here are this week's players.
>>>> M3 90/2.8 TriX HC110h most shot at f2.8 to f4
>>>>
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/album20?page=2
>>>>
>>>> all opinions welcome
>>>>
>>>> bill h
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Like all of them Bob. The expression on Pedro's face is great. The photo
>>> of
>>> Mark, although blurred conveys a lot about him, his playing and his 
>>> mood.
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>>
>>> Peter Dzwig
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>
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