Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/01/14

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Subject: [Leica] re: digital treadmill
From: bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen)
Date: Sat Jan 14 17:30:35 2006

I'm going to stick my neck way out here, Steve (and slide a wicker hamper
under it :-) - 
Yes, I think I am doing better work now than I did in the past. Part of that
has to do with the fact that I am shooting much more than I was. I was not
in a financial position to just bang away at my own work - as opposed to
commissioned work. Film costs money. Processing costs money. (Yes, I know I
could do my own processing, and I could buy bulk film - which I did). But I
have found digital extremely freeing, both financially and artistically.

I find that digital gives me an image by image, rather than roll by roll,
choice of color v black and white. I was never particularly fond of color
negative film, and wasn't thrilled with conversions to black and white.
Digital, on the other hand, gives me better color, far, far more easily
adjusted and balanced, and gives me black and whites that look like what I
shot on black and white film.

No, I'm not thrilled with the noise in shadows, but I'm getting used to it.
I know that there are those who say 'why get used to it  when you can use
film?' And the answer is "because it is part of what is now main stream
photography."  If I was really bothered by it, I'd go with Canon and get
smoother, cleaner results at iso 1600 than I got with the best 400 iso film.
But I'm not all that thrilled with the overly clean Canon look - probably
because I grew up on Tri-X.

Now, am I as comfortable with my DSLR as I was with my M6s? No, I'm not. I
love the feel of the Ms. I love the rangefinder framing. And there is
absolutely no question that the latest Leica M glass had virtually no peers.
That said, my DSLR is every bit as quiet as my M6, and I do like its
ergonomics. The lenses? Some are up to Leica quality, some aren't. But all
give me images that I can be proud of as frequently as my Ms did.

So am I giving up something to get something? Yes, I suppose I am. I'm given
up the feel of the Ms - and I am giving up those fast prime lenses; I've
never been a zoom guy, and I've had to adapt to that. But life is about
tradeoffs, so why wouldn't I expect photography to be?

The bottom line, as always, is the results. And I'm willing to be that were
I not now known as the ultimate Leica apostate ;-), I could be posting the
black and white images I've been posting, telling everyone I shot them with
my M6, and no one would question me.

Finally, none of this means that someone else shouldn't be shooting film. If
it does what you want it to do, and if money isn't an object - and if you
don't have to turn results around quickly - why not keep shooting film until
there's no film to shoot?

B. D.


On 1/14/06 6:19 PM, "Steve Barbour" <kididdoc@cox.net> wrote:

> On Jan 14, 2006, at 3:52 PM, B. D. Colen wrote:
> 
>> I spent about 40-45 years shooting film. But from the point at which I
>> realized that not only does digital give me more convenience than
>> film, but
>> it also expands my photographic 'reach,' I haven't thought about
>> going back
>> to film. Sure, once and a while I'll shoot a roll. But each time I
>> do, I end
>> up asking myself, 'now why did I do this? What has it given me that
>> digital
>> can't?
> 
> Hi BD, I believe that most of us wound up here ie. on the LUG  'cus
> of Leica lenses , cameras, and film...and we insisted that was God's
> way, and was better than the alternatives.
> Are you saying that you now get better photos with digital than you
> can get with Leica lenses, cameras, and film ? Are there compromises?
> Are you giving up something to get something else ?
> 
> This is my dilemma, perhaps yours, and a lot of other photographers
> here...
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
>   And why can't I do as much with film as I can with digital?' Sure,
>> long-term storage of images requires paying attention to technology
>> changes
>> and making sure that one doesn't get two generations behind when
>> technology
>> changes. And, no, I'm not great at cataloguing my images - but then
>> I wasn't
>> very good at cataloguing my negs either as I am definitely an ADD
>> and I am
>> lousy with detailed, boring work. But that's no different with
>> digital.
>> 
>> But if anyone else sees digital as a microwave, and gets better
>> results with
>> film - keep your microwave.
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/14/06 3:05 PM, "David Rodgers" <drodgers@casefarms.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A year ago I was convinced I'd never shoot film again. Right now
>>> all I'm
>>> shooting is film. So much for absolutes.
>>> 
>>> In my kitchen I have a microwave and a gas range. My high-tech
>>> microwave
>>> is like a DSLR. I use it a lot because I'm so busy with other things.
>>> But it's not my favorite way to cook.
>>> 
>>> DaveR
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Douglas Nygren [mailto:dnygr@cshore.com]
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:30 AM
>>> To: lug@leica-users.org
>>> Subject: [Leica] re: digital treadmill
>>> 
>>> Nathan and Tina,  Your points are well taken. I'm not 100% for or
>>> against. I react more to those who wax over digital than to those who
>>> defend film.
>>> 
>>> Tina mentions sending images over the internet. I like doing that.
>>> 
>>> Nathan and others note that people have kept the photos from the
>>> past,
>>> but not the negatives. Others note they have the photos and negatives
>>> from the past.
>>> 
>>> Someone else noted enjoying getting the instant feedback on the photo
>>> taken. That's true, but there is also a lot of enjoyment when you
>>> develop your film and see how it all came out. The key word is
>>> enjoyment.
>>> 
>>> Then again, since I use fast film at slow speeds, I don't enjoy
>>> taking
>>> the film through airports and x-ray machines. Maybe I'll take my
>>> digital camera with me the next time I go to Europe, but then I do a
>>> lot of panoramic work and where do I find a digital, panoramic
>>> camera?
>>> 
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from jonathan at openhealth.org (Jonathan Borden) ([Leica] re: digital treadmill)
Reply from scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin) (Noisy digital shadows - was: Re: [Leica] re: digital treadmill)
Reply from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] re: digital treadmill)
Reply from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] re: digital treadmill)
In reply to: Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] re: digital treadmill)