Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/01/15

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Subject: [Leica] re: digital treadmill
From: sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner)
Date: Sun Jan 15 11:12:31 2006
References: <BFEFE70B.ADF7%bdcolen@comcast.net>

B.D., you remind me of an old lawyer friend who used to say jocularly that 
he never knows what he thinks about something until after he has offered his 
opinion!    ;-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@comcast.net>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] re: digital treadmill


> Thanks, Seth. All that said, however, I'm sure I'll look back on it at 
> some
> point and ask - 'what in God's name was I thinking!?' :-)
>
>
> On 1/15/06 9:53 AM, "Seth Rosner" <sethrosner@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> B.D., your response is going in my Leica info file for keeper email 
>> posts. I
>> have not yet gone digital though I may if the Leica digital M that debuts 
>> at
>> Photokina in September is as good as I hope and I can raise enough money
>> selling some stuff that I don't use! Big benefit permitting me the use of 
>> my
>> M lenses and maintaining the Leica M manner of photography.
>>
>> That said, this post is the defining description of today's world for a
>> professional photographer and for a great many serious amateurs.
>>
>> Seth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@comcast.net>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] re: digital treadmill
>>
>>
>>> I'm going to stick my neck way out here, Steve (and slide a wicker 
>>> hamper
>>> under it :-) -
>>> Yes, I think I am doing better work now than I did in the past. Part of
>>> that
>>> has to do with the fact that I am shooting much more than I was. I was 
>>> not
>>> in a financial position to just bang away at my own work - as opposed to
>>> commissioned work. Film costs money. Processing costs money. (Yes, I 
>>> know
>>> I
>>> could do my own processing, and I could buy bulk film - which I did). 
>>> But
>>> I
>>> have found digital extremely freeing, both financially and artistically.
>>>
>>> I find that digital gives me an image by image, rather than roll by 
>>> roll,
>>> choice of color v black and white. I was never particularly fond of 
>>> color
>>> negative film, and wasn't thrilled with conversions to black and white.
>>> Digital, on the other hand, gives me better color, far, far more easily
>>> adjusted and balanced, and gives me black and whites that look like what 
>>> I
>>> shot on black and white film.
>>>
>>> No, I'm not thrilled with the noise in shadows, but I'm getting used to
>>> it.
>>> I know that there are those who say 'why get used to it  when you can 
>>> use
>>> film?' And the answer is "because it is part of what is now main stream
>>> photography."  If I was really bothered by it, I'd go with Canon and get
>>> smoother, cleaner results at iso 1600 than I got with the best 400 iso
>>> film.
>>> But I'm not all that thrilled with the overly clean Canon look - 
>>> probably
>>> because I grew up on Tri-X.
>>>
>>> Now, am I as comfortable with my DSLR as I was with my M6s? No, I'm not. 
>>> I
>>> love the feel of the Ms. I love the rangefinder framing. And there is
>>> absolutely no question that the latest Leica M glass had virtually no
>>> peers.
>>> That said, my DSLR is every bit as quiet as my M6, and I do like its
>>> ergonomics. The lenses? Some are up to Leica quality, some aren't. But 
>>> all
>>> give me images that I can be proud of as frequently as my Ms did.
>>>
>>> So am I giving up something to get something? Yes, I suppose I am. I'm
>>> given
>>> up the feel of the Ms - and I am giving up those fast prime lenses; I've
>>> never been a zoom guy, and I've had to adapt to that. But life is about
>>> tradeoffs, so why wouldn't I expect photography to be?
>>>
>>> The bottom line, as always, is the results. And I'm willing to be that
>>> were
>>> I not now known as the ultimate Leica apostate ;-), I could be posting 
>>> the
>>> black and white images I've been posting, telling everyone I shot them
>>> with
>>> my M6, and no one would question me.
>>>
>>> Finally, none of this means that someone else shouldn't be shooting 
>>> film.
>>> If
>>> it does what you want it to do, and if money isn't an object - and if 
>>> you
>>> don't have to turn results around quickly - why not keep shooting film
>>> until
>>> there's no film to shoot?
>>>
>>> B. D.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/14/06 6:19 PM, "Steve Barbour" <kididdoc@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 14, 2006, at 3:52 PM, B. D. Colen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I spent about 40-45 years shooting film. But from the point at which I
>>>>> realized that not only does digital give me more convenience than
>>>>> film, but
>>>>> it also expands my photographic 'reach,' I haven't thought about
>>>>> going back
>>>>> to film. Sure, once and a while I'll shoot a roll. But each time I
>>>>> do, I end
>>>>> up asking myself, 'now why did I do this? What has it given me that
>>>>> digital
>>>>> can't?
>>>>
>>>> Hi BD, I believe that most of us wound up here ie. on the LUG  'cus
>>>> of Leica lenses , cameras, and film...and we insisted that was God's
>>>> way, and was better than the alternatives.
>>>> Are you saying that you now get better photos with digital than you
>>>> can get with Leica lenses, cameras, and film ? Are there compromises?
>>>> Are you giving up something to get something else ?
>>>>
>>>> This is my dilemma, perhaps yours, and a lot of other photographers
>>>> here...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   And why can't I do as much with film as I can with digital?' Sure,
>>>>> long-term storage of images requires paying attention to technology
>>>>> changes
>>>>> and making sure that one doesn't get two generations behind when
>>>>> technology
>>>>> changes. And, no, I'm not great at cataloguing my images - but then
>>>>> I wasn't
>>>>> very good at cataloguing my negs either as I am definitely an ADD
>>>>> and I am
>>>>> lousy with detailed, boring work. But that's no different with
>>>>> digital.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if anyone else sees digital as a microwave, and gets better
>>>>> results with
>>>>> film - keep your microwave.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/14/06 3:05 PM, "David Rodgers" <drodgers@casefarms.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> A year ago I was convinced I'd never shoot film again. Right now
>>>>>> all I'm
>>>>>> shooting is film. So much for absolutes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my kitchen I have a microwave and a gas range. My high-tech
>>>>>> microwave
>>>>>> is like a DSLR. I use it a lot because I'm so busy with other things.
>>>>>> But it's not my favorite way to cook.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DaveR
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Douglas Nygren [mailto:dnygr@cshore.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:30 AM
>>>>>> To: lug@leica-users.org
>>>>>> Subject: [Leica] re: digital treadmill
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nathan and Tina,  Your points are well taken. I'm not 100% for or
>>>>>> against. I react more to those who wax over digital than to those who
>>>>>> defend film.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tina mentions sending images over the internet. I like doing that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nathan and others note that people have kept the photos from the
>>>>>> past,
>>>>>> but not the negatives. Others note they have the photos and negatives
>>>>>> from the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone else noted enjoying getting the instant feedback on the photo
>>>>>> taken. That's true, but there is also a lot of enjoyment when you
>>>>>> develop your film and see how it all came out. The key word is
>>>>>> enjoyment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then again, since I use fast film at slow speeds, I don't enjoy
>>>>>> taking
>>>>>> the film through airports and x-ray machines. Maybe I'll take my
>>>>>> digital camera with me the next time I go to Europe, but then I do a
>>>>>> lot of panoramic work and where do I find a digital, panoramic
>>>>>> camera?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> 



Replies: Reply from bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] re: digital treadmill)
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