Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/06/17

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Subject: Consumerism [was RE: [Leica] Digital Leica M]
From: scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin)
Date: Sat Jun 17 21:41:00 2006
References: <C0B4E899.11FD0%bdcolen@comcast.net> <44908C9C.5060205@adrenaline.com> <44938DAB.6030309@nathanfoto.com>

Thanks for the goods/services distinction. Makes much sense.
Also glad to hear about the disposal tax!

No, I don't usually get so excited about taxes ;-)

Scott

Nathan Wajsman wrote:

> It is not so much that the companies are being mean to us and are 
> building in planned obsolescence, but rather that as countries become 
> richer, the price of services tends to rise relative to the price of 
> goods (because the goods can be imported from countries with cheap 
> labour, like China, whereas services are mostly provided locally). 
> Whenever we have something fixed around the house, almost invariably 
> the labour is the biggest cost component. Same with my cars.
>
> You can easily see it when travelling to countries with much lower 
> income than the US or Western Europe. For example, when I visit Poland 
> (per capita income about 1/3 of the Netherlands), I find that things 
> in an electronics shop cost more or less the same as they do in the 
> Netherlands, but services are much, much less--whether it is a visit 
> to the dentist, a haircut, eating out or a car repair. I always have 
> my car serviced there--an Opel dealer, same parts, same factory tools 
> and training as in the Netherlands, but far lower labour rate. I also 
> get my teeth checked while there etc.
>
> For the same reason, things that we would replace in the US or in the 
> Netherlands can still be repaired in Poland--on my last visit I 
> brought my sister a nice big TV which had developed a serious problem 
> with colours shortly after the expiration of the warranty. The cost to 
> fix it in the Netherlands would have been a minimum of 300-400 Euro; 
> my sister had it fixed at the local TV repair shop for the equivalent 
> of 100 Euro and now has a nice, like new, TV set.
>
> BTW, when you buy anything electronic in the Netherlands, you pay a 
> special disposal tax which ranges from a couple of Euros on a small 
> item like an iPod to perhaps 20-25 Euro on a big-screen TV. The 
> electronic retailers are obliged to take back the old appliances (as 
> far as I remember, regardless of whether you buy something from that 
> shop or not). The money raised through the disposal tax pays for this 
> system.
>
> Nathan
>
> Scott McLoughlin wrote:
>
>> The technical progress is wonderful!!!!
>>
>> The issue is just that companies have abandoned ship on the
>> aspect of quality that makes something last and operate properly
>> for a long time, makes the item possible and economical to repair
>> and so on.
>>
>> Personally, I advocate a tax akin to a VAT, but it's calculated
>> based on environmental impact throughout the entire production
>> chain for an item and also includes paying up front for the full
>> disposal costs (again factoring environmentally sound disposal)
>> of the item purchased and the average useful lifetime of an item
>> prior to disposal.
>>
>> I actually consider this a rather "fiscally conservative" pay-
>> as-you-go type of policy. I'm really not too much of a tree
>> hugger.
>>
>> Sound policy? Dunno. But I imagine folks would be looking
>> to buy sturdy products that last *PRONTO*.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> B. D. Colen wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, Dick, I'll be that any washer or dryer you'd buy today 
>>> would be
>>> far more efficient, use less energy, etc., than your 35-year-old 
>>> machine.
>>> The only thing inherently valuable in a 35-year-old washer or dryer,
>>> compared to today's machine, is the set of memories that goes with 
>>> it - all
>>> those loads of little kids clothes, etc. etc. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>

-- 
Pics @ http://www.adrenaline.com/snaps
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(Jihad Sigint NSA FBI Patriot Act)



In reply to: Message from bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen) (Consumerism [was RE: [Leica] Digital Leica M])
Message from scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin) (Consumerism [was RE: [Leica] Digital Leica M])
Message from nathan at nathanfoto.com (Nathan Wajsman) (Consumerism [was RE: [Leica] Digital Leica M])