[Leica] A digital camera without.....

[bd at bdcolenphoto.com (B. D. Colen)]

Well, it may not be either polite or helpful, Hoppy, it's true - and written
in response to the kind of nonsense we've seen posted over the past couple
days about the ability of any monkey to be a great photographer with
digital, etc.

As to glass plates v film v digital - market penetration doesn't have a damn
thing to do with it; the transition from film to digital represents a sea
change in capture medium - in the way in which we use light to record what
we see in front of us. And it's the same kind of change we had when we went
from glass plates to film - moving from one capture medium to another. The
fact that there were far fewer people making photographs prior to film is
not the issue. Yes, the creation of film democratized photography. But then
so is the cell phone camera democratizing photography. ( Don't forget there
were many outstanding photographers and editors who scoffed at 35 mm cameras
as 'toys' as 35 was taking over ;-) )

Sorry, Hoppy, but things have changed in a profound way. If one prefers
using film, great - there's still film and processing available, so go for
it. But at the same time, I think that no matter how much one loves film,
one has to recognize that it is fast becoming an artifact of an earlier age.
Yes, there are still areas of photography in which film is superior to
digital, and dominant. And yes, film will undoubtedly be with us for eons to
come as a 'fine art' medium. But even today, digital and photography have
become synonymous. 

So I guess the bottom line is - things change; get used to it (please),
which is not to say that one shouldn't shoot film if one wants to do so. :-)

B. D.




On 9/29/06 9:26 AM, "G Hopkinson" <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

> B.D. that's a bit simplistic, suggesting that digital vs film is analogous 
> to
> film vs glass plates. I doubt that glass plates had
> the same sort of market penetration that 35mm film has.
> No question that digital has the majority of the market, but film still
> remains viable currently.
> People may choose to use either or both mediums right now.
> Sayings "things change - get used to it" is neither polite nor helpful in 
> my
> view.
> 
> Politely Hoppy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: B. D. Colen [mailto:bd@bdcolenphoto.com]
> Sent: Friday, 29 September 2006 21:14
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] A digital camera without.....
> 
> Or, even more simply put - you want a digital camera? Buy one. You don't?
> Don't buy one - stick with film as long as you can; there were undoubtedly
> people who stuck with glass plates.
> 
> Things change - get used to it.
> 
> By the way -the 'hi-speed' frame rate on the digital M8 is the same as the
> hi-speed frame rate on an M6 with an Abrahamson winder. Oh, and if you 
> don't
> want to look at the LCD? Don't look it it. If you're chimping it's your
> fault - not the camera's. ;-)
> 
> 
> On 9/29/06 1:24 AM, "Nathan Wajsman" <nathan@nathanfoto.com> wrote:
> 
>> I would not buy a digital camera without a screen, simply because it
>> would need to have so many little buttons and wheels in lieu of the menu
>> structure that it would be an ergonomic nightmare.
>> 
>> As for the general comments about "too many features" in digital SLRs,
>> the solution is simple--don't use them! The only controls I ever use on
>> mine are switching between manual and aperture priority modes, setting
>> the ISO speed, changing shutter speed or aperture and formatting the
>> memory card. That's it. I never chimp. My LCD is set to display the
>> picture and its histogram for 3 seconds after taking the picture, just
>> so that I can take a quick peak at the histogram if I am so inclined.
>> Since I shoot RAW only, my white balance setting is permenantly on AUTO.
>> And so on.
>> 
>> The many features of a 1-series Canon are all there, but they certainly
>> don't get in the way of my photography. I have set up the camera the way
>> I like it (regarding focus points etc.) and left it like that ever since.
>> 
>> All this reminds me of some of the complaining about the aperture
>> priority mode in the M7 or even the presence of a light meter in the M6
>> (the indications in the viewfinder were distracting etc.). Solution is
>> simple: if you don't like AE mode, then don't use it; if you don't like
>> the light meter in your M6, then take the battery out.
>> 
>> Nathan
>> 
>> David Rodgers wrote:
>>> Digital cameras have many features. I'm wondering if some wouldn't be
>>> better off with fewer. For instance, what if there was a digital camera
>>> without an LCD preview screen? It'll probably never happen. And maybe
>>> it's not realistic to think it ever would. But if anyone could have
>>> bucked the trend it would have been Leica. What if Leica hadn't put an
>>> LCD on the M8? We'd have screamed, for sure. But might not the M8 have
>>> been a better camera for it? Here's why.
>>> 
>>> 1) no chimping. My first reaction after snapping the shutter on any
>>> digital camera is to look at the screen to see if I "got it"! The irony
>>> of that is that if I didn't get it I probably just wasted a second
>>> opportunity because I was too busy looking at the LCD. And so what if I
>>> didn't get it? What are my options? Unless I can fly around the world at
>>> the speed of light and turn back time, it's too late. What time I might
>>> have had I just wasted...chimping.
>>> 
>>> Consider the case of someone having closed eyes in a shot. It takes
>>> longer to verify that there were no closed eyes than to shoot 5 frames,
>>> which was the old cure for closed eyes. With the M8 we shoot 5 frames in
>>> 2.5 seconds. That's less time that it takes to analyze the LCD. Not to
>>> mention, "Sorry but Uncle Bob had his left eye half shut. Everyone line
>>> up again!" or "Sir could I please get you to walk back under that bird.
>>> I see in my preview window that you didn't have quite the expression I'd
>>> hoped for when it crapped on your shoulder."
>>> 
>>> Perhaps we need to see images so we can delete the bad ones and save
>>> card space. Yet isn't that one big benefit of digital cameras over film?
>>> Each frame is essentially free, and I'm less constrained by the roll of
>>> 36. Why not just delete bad images later, after they are downloaded?
>>> 
>>> 2) save space inside the camera. I don't know how much room the LCD
>>> takes up, but I'm sure it takes up some. Do away with the LCD and you
>>> can make a smaller camera body. Or better yet, allocate that space to
>>> sensor electronics. (Apart for the M8 place more emphasis on a good
>>> viewfinder. Heck, on many a P&P the LCD has replaced the viewfinder). On
>>> the M8 I'm sure having an LCD meant having a fatter camera.
>>> 
>>> 3) Longer battery life. That's not a big issue, but it could be in
>>> certain circumstances. Sure I can turn off the LCD. But it's still
>>> there. 
>>> 
>>> 4) Longer camera life. Might the LCD be the first thing to go? OK, so I
>>> might be reaching here. I guess we don't really look at cameras long
>>> term today. 
>>> 
>>> 5) Less fear of pressing nose up to back of camera. No explanation
>>> needed.
>>> 
>>> OK, I'm sure by now everyone is saying that we still need access to the
>>> menu. After all we've got options to deal with. A simple shutter speed
>>> dial and aperture ring may have been satisfactory way back when, but now
>>> we need to toggle through a thousand and one configuration choices.
>>> Today a simple situation calls for
>>> "Shades-Down-Red-22-Right-Bleed-Dive-Trips-All-Go" when yester-year the
>>> most complex situation we had to deal with called for
>>> "Sunny-16-and-Hail-Mary"?
>>> 
>>> The ability to immediately see results has detracted from the discipline
>>> it takes to make sure we get it right in the first place.
>>> "Polaroid-like-instant-view-ability" is very
>>> un-"Leica-M-and-the-decisive-moment"-like.
>>> 
>>> For those who absolutely must have a preview device here's the solution.
>>> Leica could have offered an LCD as an accessory. Not on the camera, but
>>> a small monitor you could put in your pocket. It would have its own
>>> battery pack, control buttons, and it would easily plug into the M8.
>>> Best of all, just like bright-line finders it could easily be misplaced
>>> allowing Leica yet another source of ongoing revenue. Someone on the
>>> selling side obviously didn't think through all the advantages.
>>> 
>>> daveR    
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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