Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/10/19

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Subject: [Leica] Dog wrangling - guns, kids, and saying "cheese"
From: bd at bdcolenphoto.com (B. D. Colen)
Date: Thu Oct 19 16:36:57 2006

Amen!


On 10/19/06 4:51 PM, "Douglas Sharp" <douglas.sharp@gmx.de> wrote:

> One thing is reasonably certain, if what Kyle has shown so far can
> generate as much controversy and conversation in the outside world as it
> does in the "hallowed environs" of our relatively small community, it's
> going to pretty big when it hits the market.
> I personally wish Kyle every success with it, and I'm pleased to have
> experienced the development of the idea from the very start.
> Douglas
> 
> B. D. Colen wrote:
>> Steve, what you say about the people self-selecting, or the photographer
>> self-selecting them, can be said about a great number of documentary
>> projects, books and others. Don't you suspect that Dorothea Lange was told
>> "no thanks, Mam," by as many people as agreed to be photographed? And what
>> about Walker Evans when he was doing the Let Us Now Praise Famous Men
>> project with James Agee?
>> 
>> Having seen the entire collection of photos Kyle is planning to submit to
>> his publisher, I'd say that he probably does have a pretty reasonable 
>> cross
>> section of gun owners. Okay, it's probably heavy on stereotypes, but there
>> are plenty of "normal" folks in the pile.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/19/06 1:50 PM, "Steve Barbour" <kididdoc@cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>>   
>>> On Oct 19, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Jim Shulman wrote:
>>> 
>>>     
>>>> If anything, these pictures do NOT seem cute and harmless.
>>>> They can be very disturbing in their utter normality.
>>>>       
>>> (true Jim, as in "seem cute and harmless")
>>> 
>>>     
>>>> Has anyone else ever documented gun owners as Kyle is doing now?
>>>>       
>>> "documented gun owners "....  really now Jim,
>>> 
>>> that is not what Kyle is doing...he is photographing people who want
>>> to be photographed.... in the living room, with the wife , kids, dog,
>>> and semiautomatic weapons...at the invitation of a photographer who
>>> wants to sell a book... (we all do so.... sorry Kyle)....
>>> 
>>> I see this in large part a creation, a fiction.. (good and bad)...
>>> 
>>> selecting a few individuals who want five minutes of fame,  quite
>>> possibly having nothing at all to do with the fictional entity...
>>> 
>>> "documented gun owners"...
>>> 
>>> analogous to a study of people and their nudity, based on people who
>>> want to get photographed in their living room naked...
>>> 
>>> I am afraid that is a good part of the dynamics and psychopathology
>>> that is being celebrated and exploited here...
>>> 
>>> and now I have said more than enough,
>>> 
>>> but the photos are good, and they are obviously disturbing...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>> 
>>>     
>>>> Not to my knowledge.
>>>> He noted that a vast proportion of the US population owns guns and
>>>> considers
>>>> them a part of their home life.  Yet, there must have been some
>>>> unspoken
>>>> taboo against showing this, as people would show off their doggies,
>>>> cute
>>>> kids, or macram? collections.  Pictures like this just aren't taken or
>>>> shown.
>>>> I can't think of a better definition for art: it makes me consider the
>>>> commonplace in a wholly different manner.
>>>> 
>>>> If he can sell it, all the more power to him.  That means so many
>>>> other
>>>> people will be forced to consider the middle-class normality of gun
>>>> ownership, whether they approve of it or not.  Personally, I'd
>>>> prefer far
>>>> stricter controls on access to guns, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't
>>>> consider the pervasive ownership and public affection for firearms.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Shulman
>>>> Bryn Mawr, PA
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org
>>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshul=comcast.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Steve
>>>> Barbour
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:32 PM
>>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Dog wrangling - guns, kids, and saying "cheese"
>>>> 
>>>> gosh Kyle...
>>>> 
>>>> you are such a fine photographer.... why do you insist on taking a
>>>> tiny slice of the psychopathology that's out there, glorifying it...
>>>> and making it seem cute and harmless...
>>>> 
>>>> is it only because you can sell it?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>       
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>     
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




In reply to: Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] Dog wrangling - guns, kids, and saying "cheese")