Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/03/06

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Subject: [Leica] Florida Wildlife
From: kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour)
Date: Tue Mar 6 17:31:04 2007
References: <411837147-1173228942-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-670370778-@bxe029-cell02.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

> Adam
>
> What I don't understand is the rationalization which is rampant in  
> what
> we consider */civilization/.* I'm too fat, it's mother nature's fault.
> Evolution crafted me this way. I'll do better than skinny folk in the
> next ice age, which is utter nonsense. I grew up in Arizona and was
> reasonably familiar with Native American culture. Some of my Native
> American friends came from successful families and did quite well. One
> of my best friend growing up was full-blooded Indian, and very  
> slender.
> His mother was pudgy, as was mine. His dad was trim, mine wasn't. Some
> Native Americans  could be found propped up against a convenience  
> store
> drinking cheap wine. Of course they didn't have a monopoly on this
> behavior. I'll have to ask Steve if the "deuce" is still active in
> Phoenix.

the "deuce"   ?     Steve

> If so it will have whites, blacks and maybe even a few has-been
> photographers.
>
> A subset of humans have managed to cast off their cultural,  racial  
> and
> prehistoric baggage to do amazing things. Going to the moon comes
> immediately to mind since I live 20 miles from KSC. For every  
> problem we
> encounter, many of which are of our own making, there are experts  
> (even
> psychotherapists?)galore willing to lend a sympathetic ear.At the same
> time our Native American brothers and sisters were chasing buffalo we
> were doing much the same. The old west is full of survival stories not
> limited to those who arrived  first. Some years back I illustrated a
> story on a group of former Indians who  had  blended  right into the
> Mexican culture which they  were a part of.  Once the government  
> started
> talking about  recompense for being displaced several centuries  
> earlier
> the Indians came out of the woodwork.
>
> I can remember hearing "gland problems" cause my obesity for  
> decades. A
> doctor once told me something like that might effect 1 person in  
> 10,000.
> Still, it plays well on Oprah. As I mentioned before, I'm not going to
> make fun of overweight people. Maybe my remark about "fatties" was not
> the best choice of words? Nevertheless, we expend our efforts raising
> children to be good adults. Once one becomes an adult it should be  
> their
> responsibility to do the right thing. whining and crying gets us
> nowhere. I've tried and it doesn't work for me. Maybe others have had
> more success and if so I'd like to have the recipe.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
> Adam Bridge wrote:
>> And neither of you understand.
>>
>> Notice what has happened to Native American populations with  
>> regard to
>> obesity. It's a real problem. Evolution crafted humans with bodies
>> capable of hunter/gatherer existence. Feast and famine was very real.
>> It's very real in many parts of the world. It's not here.
>>
>> As a result humans, a subset of those humans much more than others,
>> have the ability and the desire to both consume and store mass
>> quantities of calories. Back in the ice age this was survival:  
>> protein
>> sources were catch as catch can, preservation was difficult to
>> impossible, and you ate what you could when you could. Populations
>> evolved under those conditions and there is a very real portion
>> humanity whose bio-chemical nature is to keep fat at all costs - just
>> as there are other portions of humanity who have just the opposite
>> tendancies - the expend currently consumed calories first and store
>> 2nd.
>>
>> If we were to have a quick-onset ice age I'll leave it as an exercise
>> to the reader about who would survive longer.
>>
>> Unfortunately the US free market has researched, determined and
>> trained many of us to enjoy foods that are high in fats and oils,  
>> high
>> in complex carbohydrates, and low in protein. It's a magic bullet for
>> selling food: it taps into a natural human desire for specific types
>> of calories (normally difficult to come by) that, because they do not
>> contain much protein, don't satisfy over time. Wow - can you sell  
>> into
>> THAT market!
>>
>> That's what happened to Native American populations when exposed to
>> western supermarket type foods - horrendous problems because they  
>> have
>> all the appetites but their behavior has been required to change
>> radically - no buffalo hunting allowed, thank you very much. There  
>> are
>> some great programs on Plains Indians that used to be available
>> through the University of Nebraska that touch on these health issues.
>>
>> It's only been in the last 300 years in the West that starvation  
>> isn't
>> a routine problem. Clearly over substantial parts of the world it's
>> STILL a problem and inside the US that hasn't changed either although
>> the nature of the KIND of starvation has: cheap calories aren't
>> necessarily "good for you" calories.
>>
>> I submit you need to think of food as a kind of drug. Those "fatties"
>> that Walt so provocatively and snottily called them are dealing  
>> with a
>> wealth of issues. It's not just a matter of will power. For Walt it's
>> probably not an issue but for others the issues are vast and complex.
>>
>> I'm wondering if both of have connected obesity with anorexia and
>> other eating disorders? Would either of you make fun of of people who
>> are starving themselves to death? I don't think so. After all THOSE
>> people have near-normal physical appearances - even ones validated by
>> today's media and culture! They don't get in the way with their  
>> carts.
>> And sure they're tearing their heart muscles apart to get protein but
>> they don't LOOK bad.
>>
>> Psychotherapists have not labeled obesity as an eating disorder --  
>> but
>> those who I know and talk with see the same issues of control as  
>> being
>> present.
>>
>> And one other quick aside. In the 10 years between the mid-70s and  
>> the
>> mid-80s US calorie consumption jumped by almost 1,000 calories a  
>> week.
>> Want to guess why? I know I had no idea. The addition of Mexican  
>> foods
>> into the US cultural diet. 1,000 calories a week is 2 pounds gained
>> without fiddling with the exercise component. And, of course, we DID
>> fiddle with the exercise component: we turned it DOWN.
>>
>> Steve is right: the energy balance is absolute - find a way to
>> exercise off what you take in beyond your subsistence needs are or
>> you're gonna gain weight. As I pointed out earlier that becomes more
>> difficult as one gets heavier until having your innards surgically
>> removed looks like a good option - maybe the only option!
>>
>> Do people make choices about what they eat? Yep. But remember that
>> they are being targeted. And even though Tina hasn't noticed it here,
>> obesity is a rapidly rising problem throughout the Asian nations. Not
>> at the US scale - yet - but it's happening.
>>
>> And lastly I want to apologize to Tina, and to the list, for the
>> degree of stridency in the previous couple of posts. Reading Tina's
>> posts I see that the degree of judgement was not as great as I was
>> reading in - although it's still there. Walt, I think, is just being
>> provocative but if he's not then he's displaying an ugly bigotry he
>> wouldn't consider with other minority groups - even self-selected
>> ones.
>>
>> Adam Bridge
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/07, Tina Manley <images@infoave.net> wrote:
>>> At 10:32 AM 3/6/2007, you wrote:
>>>> I do believe it is life we are talking about, a life that doesn't
>>>> rob the rest of humanity of basic necessities. So many people  
>>>> in  this
>>>> unconcerned world  never get the chance to eat a decent meal. They
>>>> work like dogs and still their children go to bed hungry, or
>>>> worse.  Tina, I'm sure, can testify to what it does to us when we
>>>> see starving children. Couple that with witnessing the disgusting
>>>> overindulgence  in America and Western Europe? No wonder she points
>>>> her camera at those who seemingly have no idea of what real
>>> suffering might be.
>>>>
>>>> Walt
>>>
>>> Thank you, Walt.  You said it much better than I could.
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>> Tina Manley, ASMP, NPPA
>>> http://www.tinamanley.com
>>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/dimes_for_hunger
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
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Replies: Reply from abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) ([Leica] Florida Wildlife)