Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/07/21

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Subject: [Leica] on the reservation...
From: kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour)
Date: Sat Jul 21 12:04:50 2007
References: <BFA6E8B5-DB42-466D-AB3B-C4C975F32072@cox.net> <5DAC689F-79A0-41D1-9B74-B58D5D53E3A2@pandora.be>

On Jul 21, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Philippe Orlent wrote:

> Just throwing in my mail to Steve, about the retouching and wether  
> or not cropping of this magnificent photograph:


good and thanks Philippe...I'm glad that others can see the  
background, reasoning, and your  arguments..that assisted in the  
final preparation of the image...


much appreciated,  Steve


>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I'm starting on the bigger file now, but about the little girl and  
>> the photo itself, that I really like a lot:
>>
>> About the girl:
>> For me she balances the photograph a more (adding f.i. a  
>> compositional diagonal between the gril's and woman's head, and  
>> being a counterweight to the light sand dunes in the background),  
>> and her presence adds a connotation of generations, giving the  
>> image a much broader and richer scope.
>> Without her, it's a powerful portrait of a magnificent old lady.  
>> But if that was the purpose of the photograph, I would have shot  
>> it more eye level and a bit closer.
>> With her, it's an environmental* portrait, telling a story: the  
>> environment helps to interpret circumstances and facial  
>> expressions and emotions.
>> So: a layer of a richer psychology.
>>
>> Also: the girl helps to date the photograph.
>> Without her: it could have been made a 100 years ago.
>> With her: 50 years ago but probably less (looking at her clothes),  
>> also depending of it being 'modern' B&W, or 'retro' B&W.
>> So: another layer of social relevance.
>> That's two big bonuses in one photograph IMO.
>>
>> * I always prefer the latter, unless for closer, studio or  
>> implicitily made for that purpose (thus with the portraitee  
>> knowing) shots, where the surroundings are less prominently  
>> necessary (unless staged).
>>
>> If I remember correctly, I immediately adored the color shot that  
>> you initially posted. It has a sense of heath, that's less  
>> prominent in the B&W conversions (despite the warm toning effect.)
>> If I would have a color version go at it, I'd just get the  
>> scanning noise out (not a very good scan IMO: too harsh), shift  
>> the colors a bit (just for falsly romantic reasons: my love of  
>> 70's color film*) and lighten up the shadow part of the woman's  
>> face. And a little local sharpening here and there, ofcourse. And  
>> a bit of dodging and burning, maybe. And optimizing the framing by  
>> taking small bits out here and there...
>> Just the same as I'd do in B&W, but without the B&W conversion  
>> (Alienskin software: convert to Acros 100 without noise) and  
>> toning (through curve that I use often adding a light bronze to  
>> the photograph).
>>
>> Now you know the tricks I used ;-)
>>
>> * In color (see this attachment with just the color shift and none  
>> of the other tricks) it would be an instant classic, as if  
>> straight out of National Geographic, when that still was at it's  
>> peak moment of exotic observations.
>> Now who wouldn't dream of having just once made a shot like that?
>>
>> But finally: the shot as it is, in color and unaltered, makes me  
>> ask: do people still live like this? And is this acceptable in  
>> this day and age?
>> Thus bonus number 3: an image that makes a statement.
>> On par with Dorothea Lange's Migrant Mother as far as I'm  
>> concerned. Which is even better than National Geographic level.
>>
>> No, throwing such 3 bonuses away with a close crop and a smirky  
>> B&W conversion, it wouldn't be my choice.
>>
>> But in the end, it's entirely up to you, ofcourse :-)
>>
>> Philippe
>
> Op 18-jul-07, om 01:13 heeft Steve Barbour het volgende geschreven:
>
>> an image taken recently at Canyon de Chelly...
>>
>> Philippe Orlent helped  me immeasurably  with this photo....  
>> especially to see the value of leaving the child
>>
>> in the photo, with the old woman...and with the final preparation  
>> of the image,
>>
>> merci....
>>
>>
>> <http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/barbour/PAW2007/ 
>> womanchild_002.jpg.html>
>>
>>
>> leica M7 Summicron 90mm f2 APO ASPH...
>>
>>
>> your comments are most appreciated,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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In reply to: Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] on the reservation...)
Message from philippe.orlent at pandora.be (Philippe Orlent) ([Leica] on the reservation...)