Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/07/16

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Subject: [Leica] 50 Meg Kodak sensor - Megapixel Overkill!!
From: simon.apekop at gmail.com (simon jessurun)
Date: Wed Jul 16 22:18:18 2008
References: <a3f189160807160817n228fa62cn368ba69b83a38151@mail.gmail.com> <C4A3E298.1A217%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Sure nothing beats cubic inches.
Best,simon jessurun,amsterdam,the netherlands

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark@rabinergroup.com>
wrote:

> Megapixel Overkill!!
> Dpreview has announced a thing where they will be telling you the thing
> they
> are calling "Pixel Density" * for all new digital cameras and backs coming
> out.
> Because even with these guys all you see easily up front is the MG
> megapixel
> number - as if that's what defines a device.
>
> Which is like saying in the film world my Olympus Pen F half frame is
> better
> than your Leica M full frame became mine comes packed with a pro pack of
> Plus X
> and you're shooting Tri X.
> Nope.
>
> Cramming pixel grabbers or slow film rez together is great in a pinch but
> in
> the end what's going to have more effect is acreage acreage acreage.
> The next format up.
> The combination of these two things combined in digital could be called PD.
> The Heartbreak of PD; Pixel Density.
> Which is what DP Dpreview is calling it.
> So mind your PD's on your DP.
> And expect the same with the LL Luminous Landscape and all similar
> pretenders.
>
> In the past year we've heard tell on DP & LL of many a pocket pixel grabber
> which has upped its MP count on its latest incarnation and downed its
> quality.
> Noise! I say with a capital N!!.
> MUSH! I say to you!
>
> BIGGER NUMBERS! Says their marketing departments.
>
> So if the medium format backs are 40 or 50 or 60 MPs I'm not sweating it.
> I have prints I carry around which are printed at such low resolutions that
> I've had to resolve not to tell anyone what those numbers are. Not even
> myself. If I remembered I'd have to kill myself.
>
> I'll need a side by side billboard to billboard comparison with Leitz
> binoculars to see in the real world what these numbers might really mean.
> By
> the side of the road. With birds tweeting.
> What they may mean is SHOOT LARGE FORMAT.
> Larger than medium format.
> You know; swings and tilts. Dark cloth.
>
> In the end what applies to film seems to also apply to digital.
>
> For any job the best camera is the heaviest camera you can carry.
> When you get home: Tiger Balm.
>
>
> They same dumbness which makes people think a 12mp point and shoot compares
> with a 12mp DSLR with a sensor size 6 times physically bigger also applies
> to high end medium format work.
>
> That fact that a sensor is out now which really is about the same size as
> 645 is the big news.
> A shame those PR people blew it by blurring it a bit too much as its not
> quite the same.
> And when something is not the same. Its not the same.
>
> So you'd NOT say "finally a true 645 sensor"
> You'd say' Finally a sensors which is virtually 645!
> Then you are not lying. And you're covering your but.
>
> "darned close to 645!" today only! For you only!
>
>
> * Pixel Density: when Moore is less
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0807/08070301pixeldensity.asp
>
>
> mark@rabinergroup.com
> Mark William Rabiner
>
>
>
> > From: Sonny Carter <sonc.hegr@gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
> > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:17:45 -0500
> > To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] 50 Meg Kodak sensor - maybe this is what's happening
> > behind the doors at Solms:
> >
> >> From British Journal Of Photography:
> >
> > Title: *Phase One announces full-frame medium format back*
> > Feature: *Daily News*
> > Date: *14 July 2008*
> >
> > One week after the first 50 million pixel medium format camera was
> announced
> > by Hasselblad, Phase One has topped it with the launch of a 60.5 million
> > pixel resolution digital back.
> >
> > Phase One has announced the P 65+ digital back and the P 65+ camera
> system,
> > which are based on Sensor+ CCD technology co-developed with Dalsa
> > Semiconductor.
> >
> > The systems are the first to reach the 60.5 million pixel resolution
> mark.
> >
> > The chip platform offers photographers upgradeable CCD functions,
> ensuring a
> > longer lifespan for their digital back investments.
> >
> > 'Photographers need real reasons to upgrade past 39 million pixel digital
> > backs,' said Henrik H?konsson, CEO of Phase One. 'Real value includes
> higher
> > resolution but also requires new functions, faster operation, higher
> quality
> > through expanded sensitivity, increased dynamic range, better results in
> the
> > studio or on location and a better longer-term investment. I believe we
> are
> > able to achieve this and more with our Sensor+ technology.'
> >
> > The Phase One P 65+ is the first digital back and camera system to take
> > advantage of the new Sensor+ design and is claimed to be the world's
> first
> > full-frame capture system based on actual 645 film format. The P 65+
> > provides the largest live capture area available with coverage of 53.9mm
> x
> > 40.4mm ? enabling full viewfinder coverage thus no need for lens
> > magnification.
> >
> > The P 65+ sensor format provides 20 percent more live area compared to 39
> or
> > 50 Megapixel, 48mm x 36mm chips currently delivering or announced. Sensor
> > resolution is 60.5 million pixel with 8984x6732 active pixels achieving
> 180
> > MB, 8 bit RGB files.
> >
> > The P 65+ also offers captures at 1fps, reduction of Moir? artifacts,
> next
> > generation Lens+ and Focus+ technologies and a 12.5 f-stops of dynamic
> > range.
> >
> > More technical details of Sensor+ technology will be available at the
> > Photokina trade show in September 2008. Camera shipments with P 65+
> digital
> > back are expected to begin before the end of the year.
> >
> > The P 65+ digital back will retail at $39,900, while the P 65+ camera
> system
> > will start at $41,990. Advance orders are available now. For more
> > information, visit www.phaseone.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sonny
> > http://www.sonc.com
> > Natchitoches, Louisiana
> > USA
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

In reply to: Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] 50 Meg Kodak sensor - maybe this is what's happening behind the doors at Solms:)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 50 Meg Kodak sensor - Megapixel Overkill!!)