Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/01/04

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Subject: [Leica] Cuba?
From: s.dimitrov at charter.net (Slobodan Dimitrov)
Date: Sun Jan 4 10:19:34 2009
References: <20090104020812.ZRBE18445.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net><4DD8FFE3-B9B1-40F9-80CA-C0DD5F09ECBC@frozenlight.eu><D7989D94-10EF-48D3-A3C3-515CAD6160C8@charter.net><533B27A025014DD4B6B3D81E047CB7BE@precisionm50> <95D7C53D-67B1-460D-AB0B-5127889C04FA@charter.net> <6494856C861E4C9C99735C446B2BEEEF@precisionm50>

Intolerance to any form of self determination, both internally and  
externally, within one's sphere of self interest somewhat gets the  
gist of it.
sd


On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:05 AM, Bob W wrote:

> That's as may be, but it doesn't actually answer the question,  
> which was
> "why do you think a large contingent of Cubans fighting in the  
> Spanish Civil
> War 'makes sense' of the 'American reaction(s) to Cuba'?". I'm  
> interested to
> learn, because to me it doesn't make sense.
>
> Bob
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lug-bounces+leica=web-options.com@leica-users.org
>> [mailto:lug-bounces+leica=web-options.com@leica-users.org] On
>> Behalf Of Slobodan Dimitrov
>> Sent: 04 January 2009 15:49
>> To: Leica Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Cuba?
>>
>> The reaction to Cuba predates any Marxist carbuncle. While currently
>> seeming irrational to Europeans, the attitude is firmly
>> grounded in a
>> long standing interventionist position, or point of view.
>> Self determination, within a people who are perceived as a subject
>> people, is usually seen as a disease which needs to be cauterized.
>> The Caribbean has been a hot bed of self determination from the very
>> beginning. With Haiti and Cuba leading the charge.
>> When I was in the service, I remember Gen. Westmoreland being taken
>> out of Viet Nam and given the Southern Command. I thought
>> that at the
>> time it was a demotion. But in spit of the Asian hot conflict, the
>> Southern Command position was considered more important,
>> hence a reward.
>> Some time ago, I had the chance to hear a particular speech by Rev.
>> James Lawson. It was at an MLK event. He said a sentence which I'll
>> never forget, that the job of the US military in Latin America is to
>> make sure no 14 year old ever grows up to become a Martin Luther
>> King. That speech was made in the late 2000's.
>> sd
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2009, at 3:00 AM, Bob W wrote:
>>
>>>> Some time ago, I became acquainted with a veteran from the Spanish
>>>> Civil War. He was lucky enough to have been repatriated to
>>>> the United
>>>> States. That was before, and just barely, Petain had those interned
>>>> on the French side of the border sent to the Mauthausen-Gusen camp.
>>>> So while we were talking, I asked a question for which I
>> could never
>>>> get a straight answer. That was whether the Mexican
>>>> contingent in the
>>>> Republican forces were the largest group of foreign volunteers, as
>>>> most historical presentation would have it. Without hesitation, he
>>>> said the Cubans were. I stood there, somewhat transfixed for a
>>>> moment, and said to him, now it makes sense. That is, the American
>>>> reaction(s) to Cuba.
>>>> sd
>>>
>>> I don't understand how this makes sense of the US attitude towards
>>> Cuba, and
>>> I'd be grateful if you could explain.
>>>
>>> I don't know a great deal about this, but I sutudied a bit
>> of Spanish
>>> history when I was learning Spanish at college, and some of
>> my school
>>> teachers were veterans of the civil war. Here is how I figure it -
>>> please
>>> correct me if I've got things wrong:
>>>
>>> The Spanish Civil War (73 years ago) was a long time before
>> the Cuban
>>> revolution (50 years and 3 days ago), and before the revolution
>>> Cuba was a
>>> banana republic client of the USA. Since the USA was
>> neutral about the
>>> Spanish Civil War it's likely that the Cuban government's position
>>> would
>>> also have been officially neutral, and Cubans who went to Spain
>>> would have
>>> been volunteers, even if unofficially helped by the government.
>>> Given the
>>> historical relationship between Spain and Cuba it would be entirely
>>> understandable for many Cubans to wish to be involved in the civil
>>> war on
>>> one side or the other, but they would, officially at least,
>> have been
>>> volunteers who went under their own steam.
>>>
>>> The current attitude of the US towards Cuba arises from the
>> time of
>>> the
>>> Cuban revolution and the relationship between Cuba and the
>> then Soviet
>>> Union. The Cuban revolution did so a great deal of damage to US
>>> interests
>>> over there; Cuba, with Soviet backing, tried to export the
>>> revolution to
>>> other parts of Central and South America, and Cuba became a
>> potential
>>> bridgehead for the Soviets into the US, so the USA took a
>> hard line
>>> about
>>> relationships with Cuba.
>>>
>>> Since the collapse of the Soviet Union the hard line is
>> continued not
>>> because of any real threat to the US from Cuba, but because of
>>> continued
>>> vested political interests.
>>>
>>> I'd be interested to find out why you think the Spanish
>> Civil War has
>>> anything to do with the US attitude to Cuba.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Cuba?)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan) ([Leica] Cuba?)
Message from s.dimitrov at charter.net (Slobodan Dimitrov) ([Leica] Cuba?)
Message from leica at web-options.com (Bob W) ([Leica] Cuba?)
Message from s.dimitrov at charter.net (Slobodan Dimitrov) ([Leica] Cuba?)
Message from leica at web-options.com (Bob W) ([Leica] Cuba?)