Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/04/07

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Subject: [Leica] THE TRUTH OF THE PHOTO!! --- NEW STUFF : SIGN OF THE TMES. COLOUR OR b&w
From: luisripoll at telefonica.net (Lluis Ripoll)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 00:13:45 +0200
References: <7auabm$36e2k8@pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca>

Thank you Dr. Ted for this Master Class

Saludos cordiales
Lluis


El 07/04/2009, a las 17:29, Ted Grant escribi?:

> Subject: Re: [Leica] NEW STUFF : SIGN OF THE TMES. COLOUR OR b&w
>
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/leicated/ted+grant/
>
>
>
> The Q&A's to your questions and more. :-)
>
>
>
> George Lottermoser SAID AND ASKED:
>
>>> "Certainly a strong graphic
>
> and thought provoking photograph
>
> Maybe helpful and informative to let us know the where and when.
>
>
>
> TG: 1/ The picture was taken 2 days ago in Victoria Canada.
>
>
>
> Steve Barbour ASKED:
>
>>> "a very nice image... that we all see every day, even during the  
>>> prior
> UPturn....
>
> why was it taken ? is it about the color, or, is it about the content?
>
> as the photographer, it's your call...  what point are you trying to  
> make?
> how do you see it?
>
>
>
> TG: 2/ It's the content and the wall message. It may not relate  
> directly to
> the financial situation of the day to the two male subjects. But  
> it's the
> over all message and what a viewer "might" relate to the two men.
>
>
>
> Jim Nichols OFFERED:
>
>>> "I find the B&W much more impressive, both as a photo and as a  
>>> statement.
> That's my 2 cents.
>
>
>
> TG: 3/  As much as I believe the B&W is the stronger always in this  
> type of
> scene. For some reason I tend a tad toward the colour. Why? I don't  
> know
> it's a sort of gut feeling. I think it's the words on the wall to  
> the ride
> of the frame seem to stand out stronger in colour, that maybe the  
> influence?
>
>
>
> Spencer Cheng OFFERED:
>
>>> "B&W. Colour, to me, is just a distraction in this case.
>
>
>
> TG: 4/ As mentioned above in 3 is the only reason I kind of lean  
> toward the
> colour. However the B&W allows complete concentration of the content.
>
>
>
> Douglas Sharp OFFERED:
>
>>> I must say I prefer the BW version. For me, it brings out the sign  
>>> more
> strongly as a reference to two who "may" have been victims of the  
> truth
> behind it.
>
> Do I detect a bit of colour dodging in the yellows before conversion  
> to BW?
>
>
>
> TG: 5/ No dodging, I think it's just the smudged wall.
>
>
>
> Steve Barbour OFFERED:
>
>>> I, like you Ted, in all likelihood, will prefer bw...truth is, I'm a
> little surprised by your question...
>
> (and that's no surprise  :-) ) maybe you are way ahead of me, and  
> you want
> to consider why anything should be in color...
>
>
>
> This does seem to be a very ongoing question...maybe because people  
> are
> shooting RAW, though I think in essence, it ought to be a simple  
> thing for
> the shooter to decide.
>
> but as to the content, guys on the street like this, a dime a dozen, a
> feature of city life even during the best of times, and we don't  
> know if the
> sign, ie education...is a factor in this sad situation, even as now  
> some
> very highly educated people are out of work, on the street...
>
>
>
> The sign may have had more relevance and truth actually during good  
> economic
> times, compared to now when education may be less of a causative  
> factor in
> unemployment...
>
> anyway, good on you, as you've pushed buttons that will have us  
> thinking and
> arguing on several fronts,
>
>
>
> TG: 6/ No preference other than my quotation " When you photograph  
> people in
> Colour you photograph their clothes. When you photograph people in  
> B&W you
> photograph their souls!"  This also must be tempered with  
> intelligence.
> Simply because doing an assignment in India would be pretty stupid  
> to only
> shoot B&W due to the colours of the country and peoples clothing.  
> However?
> If you were doing a documentary on the slums .... I would shoot all  
> B&W
> without question!
>
> I think one can read the economic situation or the education  
> situation in
> cost of attending. But the second line is right in the face so true  
> fo many
> people.
>
>
>
> Lluis OFFERED:
>
>>> I understand your comment content two questions, one about what this
> photography can be interpreted (the visual mesage), for me you give  
> a fresh
> and at the time dramatic vision of the situation. Many of us was  
> just shot
> the poor men, you have added an ironic message that it minds a lot of
> things. Here you are not only showing images, you are giving to the  
> viewers
> a subject to discuss, some that can modify our thoughts about a  
> situation.
>
> The second question about color or B&W is only a mater of taste, we  
> are used
> to be more dramatic images in B&W than in color. You know me very  
> well, but
> maybe on this case I'll be for the color, why? because IMO it seprates
> better the two plans of action on this photo.
>
>
>
> TG: 7/ True about the two men!  I believe in most cases the subject  
> would've
> been the two even though we've seen hundreds of similar photos.  
> However a
> moment in the "Art of Observation" the message becomes far more than  
> the two
> on the street! We as photographers must always see the most obvious  
> moment.
> but never forget the important split second to look beyond that  
> point !!!
>
>
>
> Pasvorn OFFERED:
>
>>> First thing I saw was the sign.  Then I started making assumption  
>>> about
> the 2 gents in the middle.
>
> But when looking at a bigger picture, they looked like they were  
> engaging in
> a good conversation.
>
> I really like the picture.<<<<<
>
>
>
> TG: 8/ Now that's interesting as that's the first thing I saw! Then  
> the two
> men! I know walking along any street a sign such as this is so in  
> the face
> it almost warrents finding something to anchor with it and truning  
> it into
> an interesting picture. Which is the case here.
>
>
>
> Nathan OFFERED:
>
>>> B&W for me as well, Ted. <<<<<<<
>
>
>
> TG: 9/  It seems the B&W folks have the lead. And when you look at  
> two 13X19
> prints side by each the B&W wins hands down!
>
>
>
> Philippe OFFERED:
>
>>> Great contrast and sort of kick in the ... eyes, and mind.
>
> Thank you Doctor Ted :-)
>
>
>
> TG: 10/ It is a a sort of eye opener when you see it on the street  
> like this
> with a possible couple of subjects in the background.
>
>
>
> Felix OFFERED:
>
> <<Nobody may say this image is not pertinet nowadays. Black and  
> white image
> remarks the dramatic aspect of the matter. As everybody already  
> knows you
> are *the master*.<<
>
>
>
> TG: 11/ I think it fits the scene of the day. Although the wall  
> message may
> not apply to these two gentlemen in relation to attending or not  
> attending
> university. It still is a strong photo moment.
>
>
>
> NOW THE TRUTH OF THE MOMENT! :-)
>
> This was a test photo for reactions! I did not shoot this! However  
> to those
> offering praise thank you very much. But they will be passed along  
> to the
> shooter!
>
>
>
> This photograph was shot by my 18 year old grandson Scott "Wink"  
> Grant. He
> has recently taken a liking to photography without any pushing by me  
> or his
> father, Ted jnr. He has taken to it with roaring success of cross  
> country
> bike action, skate boarding, basketball, people of all kinds. He  
> shows no
> fear of what the light level is. I told him the other day, "Wink  
> it's a bit
> under exposed, too dark! You should've given it more light!"  :-(  His
> response?
>
>
>
> "Grandpa I've heard you say a thousand times.. "That if you can see  
> it , you
> can shoot it!"  :-) At least he's been listening!! :-) So OK how is  
> that for
> putting it back in yer face? Now we are going to have a few "technical
> lessons" shortly. :-)
>
>
>
> The photograph in question was shot because. He says, Quote -  
> unquote! " I
> was walking down the street saw the sign and the two guys and thought,
> "COOL!"   Camera up, click!  "Well that's what you always say." Not  
> a bad
> shot considering he's only been playing "photographer" for a couple of
> months!
>
>
>
> Now with that kind of eye and instinct to observe and shoot without  
> any
> teaching about photography. However since he came out of the womb 18  
> years
> ago he's been learning by osmosis.
>
>
>
> I want to tank you all for your comments and trust no offence taken  
> at blind
> siding you with the effort.
>
> Cheers,
>
> ted
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In reply to: Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (Ted Grant) ([Leica] THE TRUTH OF THE PHOTO!! --- NEW STUFF : SIGN OF THE TMES. COLOUR OR b&w)