Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/09/05

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Subject: [Leica] math challenged
From: ricc at embarqmail.com (Ric Carter)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:53:04 -0400
References: <543014.87311.qm@web55905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <7ac27f4f0909051244j13803dcse693b169bfe9eb2d@mail.gmail.com> <242058.15300.qm@web55905.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4AA2CB55.4050607@sfr.fr> <445492.37756.qm@web55905.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

now, i think, you are onto it.

the VF magnification only compares what you see with the eye in the  
finder to the eye not in the finder--right eye to left eye.

Ideal (for me) is 1.0 because you may then shoot with both eyes open  
most easily.

How much of the world you see is determined by the size of the window  
in the box you are looking into.

ric

On Sep 5, 2009, at 5:02 PM, H. Ball Arche wrote:

> I hate to admit it, but my eyes glazed immediately.
>
> Actually I finally realized that the VF magnification shouldn't  
> change relative to the sensor size. What changes is the size of the  
> individual lens that pulls up each of set of (more or less) similar  
> framelines. The 0.68 tilts towards the wides in both FF and 1.3  
> crop; its just that with the 1.3 crop you max frame corresponds  
> (roughly) to a 24 rather than a 28, as it would in FF.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Philippe Amard <philippe.amard at sfr.fr>
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 3:34:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] math challenged
>
>> From another list
>
> *******************
>
> Someone has a lot of time on their hands:
>
> http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/#Q&A
>
> Pretty detailed.
>
>
> *************************************
>
> Hope this brings to the confusion  ;-)
> Phx
>
>
>
>
>
>
> H. Ball Arche wrote:
>
>> "Yes, but the wides are the normals for the 1.3x crop, so you want  
>> the wider VF."
>>
>>
>>
>> Whoa, you lost me.
>>
>> If a 50mm lens taking in a 40 degree wide field of view is  
>> considered 'normal' (Mark, forgive me) in 35mm photography,
>> then with a 1.3 crop factor, isn't a 35 going to take in  
>> approximately the same 40 degree field of view?
>>
>> 40 degrees is 40 degrees, regardless of the focal length of the  
>> lens that is projecting that slice of space, and you adjust the VF  
>> magnification to suit, which means going with a narrower (than  
>> 0.71) VF doesn't it? Don't the 35's 'normal' framelines (40  
>> degrees) float well in from the edges of the M8's 0.68 VF? The M3's  
>> 0.91 VF has 40 degree wide framelines that pretty much fill the  
>> window.
>>
>> I went to the Leica site looking to see if they had a series of  
>> frameline views for the M8 like they have for the ala carte options  
>> for the MP/M7 but couldn't find anything.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Richard Man <richard.lists at gmail.com>
>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 2:44:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] math challenged
>>
>> Yes, but the wides are the normals for the 1.3x crop, so you want  
>> the wider VF.
>>
>> It really only matters regarding focusing accuracy, and with the 1.3x
>> crop, you get more DoF on the same aperture, so the lower mag factor
>> is canceled out. Certainly you see people shooting F1 all day long on
>> the M8 with spot on focus so the RF/VF is not an issue in that  
>> regard.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:22 PM, H. Ball Arche<h_arche at yahoo.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> OK, so I just learned that the M8's have a 0.68 VF. My question  
>>> is, what does that translate into, relative to the crop factor of  
>>> that sensor?  In other words, is it like what an approximately  
>>> 0.45 VF would show you on a FF camera?
>>>
>>> Since 0.72 has been the 'standard' VF since the M2, I'd have  
>>> figured that in the M8 they would want to reproduce the same  
>>> relative field of view, lens for lens, narrowing it appropriately.
>>>
>>> If I'd've bothered to wonder about it I would have figured the M8  
>>> VF to be 0.86, or 0.91 like the M3 - something narrower than 0.72.
>>>
>>> The 0.68 field of view VF in the M8 must REALLY favor the wides,  
>>> taking in a much broader field of view than would the 0.58 VF with  
>>> the same lens on a full frame camera.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
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Replies: Reply from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] math challenged)
In reply to: Message from h_arche at yahoo.com (H. Ball Arche) ([Leica] math challenged)
Message from richard.lists at gmail.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] math challenged)
Message from h_arche at yahoo.com (H. Ball Arche) ([Leica] math challenged)
Message from philippe.amard at sfr.fr (Philippe Amard) ([Leica] math challenged)
Message from h_arche at yahoo.com (H. Ball Arche) ([Leica] math challenged)