Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/10/08

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Subject: [Leica] Zeiss Normal 50mm f/2 Planar T* ZM
From: richard.lists at gmail.com (Richard Man)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 17:17:21 -0700
References: <17657877.1255026413985.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <7ac27f4f0910081215l7f7d8ec8l87c140e49fcee769@mail.gmail.com> <36172e5a0910081411v232960b3p1054a2815b4b56e0@mail.gmail.com> <7ac27f4f0910081632y4740d82eoec90a900f6b1090b@mail.gmail.com> <36172e5a0910081706m7942a919k6b028ed84a8a12c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> Richard, actually I was just commenting on your view on why Leica lenses
> cost so much.
> You've drifted off track ;-)

Is that the same as OT drivel? Because, like, if it is, I may have
driven out another newbie or two :-)

>
> Yes the Zeiss designed, Cosina made lens range are excellent performers
> (I've had several).
> Two of their ZM lenses with demanding specifications are made in Germany 
> and
> prices are similar to those from Leica.
> 85 mm f/2 Sonnar USD 2,912
> 75mm f/2 APO Summicron ASPH USD 3,295
> 15 mm f/2.8 Distagon USD 4,015
> 21mm f/2.8 Elmar USD 4,195
> Last Photokina the Zeiss representative commented to a dealer visitor that
> Zeiss could not produce a digital M for what Leica sells them for either.
> By the way Doug uses the equipment he has because he considers it the best.
> However his photos are a result of his amazing skill more than from any
> equipment he has chosen.

SO now it's back to skills?!! Face it, WE WANT Leica equipments. No
justifications needed :-) I say, it's the fairy dust from Solm.

> 2009/10/9 Richard Man <richard.lists at gmail.com>
>
>> Nah, I am not missing the points. In fact, you prove my point there -
>> the glass is just a part of the cost, the workmanship go into making
>> it into elements are the greater part.
>>
>> Leica lens is ONE of the best, but to assert that it's much better
>> than Zeiss etc. do not show up in reality. For example, your most
>> excellent pictures. Are you sure they will suffer even visibly when
>> you print large if you were to choose a lesser Zeiss lens? Most people
>> do not take GREAT pictures at 1.4. Most people do not NEED the tight
>> tolerance of the Leica lens. Now, for Doug Herr, that's a different
>> story. His fowl pictures get their sharpness and characteristic from
>> the Leica lens. Most other mortals? Nah.
>>
>> That does not mean I don't crave for Leica lens. Far from it. I don't
>> NEED them, but I sure WANT them :-)
>>
>> When fund becomes available, I will pick up the 90/2 AA again, and who
>> knows, with all these people migrating to the M9, may be there will be
>> a "inexpensive" 24/1.4 out there.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > That rather misses the point though Richard.
>> > To assist in achieving those design goals, some of those blanks are from
>> > extremely expensive and exotic glass types.
>> > Grinding and inspection is done one element at a time by extremely
>> skilled
>> > operators. Assembly into the intricate all metal mounts is entirely by
>> hand
>> > which themselves are expensive ?and made to tolerances of 1/100th of a
>> mm.
>> > Example of important contributor to Leica lens excellence
>> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/g/l_001/s032.jpg.html
>> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/g/l_001/S07.jpg.html
>> > ?http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/g/l_001/S09.jpg.html
>> >
>> >
>> > 2009/10/9 Richard Man <richard.lists at gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> That may be true, but I am betting dollars to donuts that the cost of
>> >> blank does not account for the difference in end prices.
>> >>
>> >> The low number manufactured is the prime reason, and because of that,
>> >> they can afford to use high level of tolerance and greater emphasize
>> >> on certain design goals (i.e. good performance even wide open), but
>> >> those are "side-effects." The main cause is still the simple
>> >> arithmetic of "they ain't going to sell many"
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Doug Herr <
>> wildlightphoto at earthlink.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Company A can specify glass type ABC with tolerances for refractive
>> index
>> >> +-0.2% dispersion +-0.25% surface hardness +-0.3% expansion coefficient
>> >> +-0.7% and company B can specify the same glass type with tolerances 
>> >> 1/2
>> of
>> >> company A's requirements and I'll bet company B's glass blanks are 
>> >> gonna
>> >> cost more and the finished lenses will show a lot less sample 
>> >> variation.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> // richard m: richard @imagecraft.com
>> >> // w: http://www.imagecraft.com/pub/Portfolio09/ blog:
>> >> http://rfman.wordpress.com
>> >> // book: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/745963
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Leica Users Group.
>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cheers
>> > Geoff
>> > The new LEICA M9
>> > Passion for perfect pictures.
>> > http://www.m.leica-camera.com
>> >
>> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/
>> > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> // richard m: richard @imagecraft.com
>> // w: http://www.imagecraft.com/pub/Portfolio09/ blog:
>> http://rfman.wordpress.com
>> // book: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/745963
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers
> Geoff
> The new LEICA M9
> Passion for perfect pictures.
> http://www.m.leica-camera.com
>
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/
> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
// richard m: richard @imagecraft.com
// w: http://www.imagecraft.com/pub/Portfolio09/ blog:
http://rfman.wordpress.com
// book: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/745963


In reply to: Message from wildlightphoto at earthlink.net (Doug Herr) ([Leica] Zeiss Normal 50mm f/2 Planar T* ZM)
Message from richard.lists at gmail.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Zeiss Normal 50mm f/2 Planar T* ZM)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Zeiss Normal 50mm f/2 Planar T* ZM)
Message from richard.lists at gmail.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Zeiss Normal 50mm f/2 Planar T* ZM)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Zeiss Normal 50mm f/2 Planar T* ZM)