Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/02/28

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Subject: [Leica] Zeiss Wide Angle 35mm f/2 Biogon T* ZM
From: jim at ozarkimages.us (Jim Dickson)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:10:15 -0600
References: <C7AF7F10.5E5B2%mark@rabinergroup.com> <D26CD4F7-73D0-4284-8720-27E17937B222@btinternet.com> <3cad89991002280618s273468b5u44916e7b14383758@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone, just wanted to introduce myself to the LUG as I am new to
the list.  I live in the southern United States and have been a photographer
for over forty years (not professionally).  I just wanted to comment on this
post to say that I recently purchased the lens in question for use on my M6
during a recent trip to central america and have been very happy with it's
performance.  I've always had a good experience with Zeiss lenses.

Jim

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at 
gmail.com>wrote:

> Wendy,
> I have a collection of over 1200 original prints of A4/Letter size, mainly
> (95%) black and white, accumulated over the years through Print Exchanges,
> covering every combination of camera/lens you can imagine. I cannot tell
> the
> camera or lens or system used by looking at a print at normal viewing
> distances - this is a personal observation, others on the list might see
> differences (This is an essential disclaimer on this list). Some of my
> prints that other participants have enjoyed the most have been taken with
> the crassest, cheapest, plastic Nikon lenses, on the crassest, cheapest,
> plastic Nikon bodies. It really makes no difference to the photograph and
> print. My advice to you is this - buy what you enjoy using, what falls
> within your budget, what is instinctive to use.
>
> Most manufacturers of luxury items sell their products for what the market
> will bear, period. If you cost their products, they will say that the
> premium is due to 'design' or 'sophistication' or some such word, i.e. what
> the suckers in the real world will pay. There is a world of difference
> between perceived value (what others will think about the user) to actual
> value (how good the product really is).
>
> The classic example of this now is Toyota! All the negative hype and
> media/political feeding frenzy going on obscures the fact that their
> products on the whole are exceptionally good. I really wish I could buy
> their stock, but unfortunately, from India, it is not easy...
>
> Cheers
> Jayanand
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Frank Dernie
> <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com>wrote:
>
> > Diglloyd, a subscription site, to which I no longer subscribe, had some
> in
> > depth analyses of the M9 and quite a few lenses.
> > The 35mm f2 Zeiss ZM lens was, in his opinion, the pick of the bunch,
> which
> > included a lot of Leica lenses too.
> > In terms of build quality he would be comparing it to current Canon and
> > Nikon lenses, as well as the Leica ones and they are obviously much
> better
> > than them and close to Leica in his opinion. I have never used a ZM lens
> but
> > have a 28mm f2 for my Nikon which is much better made than recent Nikkors
> I
> > have used.
> > In his photographic comparisons the big difference between the 35mm f2
> asph
> > Leica and the Zeiss was the field flatness, with the Zeiss much better in
> > the field. I am not much bothered, personally, about field flatness in
> > non-copier lenses, since I rarely photograph flat objects square on, but
> he
> > found landscapes with the Zeiss superior to the Leica because of this.
> > I may reconsider re-subscribing to the site, since I find has plausible
> > data on it.
> > He did have a go at reviewing the M9 and got a few things wrong and
> missed
> > the point at first, but eventually got well into it, he did not much like
> > it.
> > Anyway, IIRC depending on use he considered the 35mm f2 Zeiss to be the
> > only non-Leica lens he preferred to the Leica version.
> > FWIW.
> >
> > A little story about money.
> > I worked in the R&D department at Garrard, the record deck manufacturer,
> as
> > a young engineer in the mid 70s.
> > Their top model, the 401, had fallen out of fashion and production
> reduced
> > to the extent that it no longer justified being assembled on an assembly
> > line. The production was therefore re-planned to be built as one offs
> from
> > part bins in batches. Now Garrard priced everything on a cost plus profit
> > basis, unlike the competition which sold on the "what can we get for it
> > after a favourable review" basis ;-).
> > The assembly was re-costed and a new retail price calculated about 70%
> IIRC
> > more than it had been. Orders surged at the new price.
> > This taught me that often a higher price makes things more attractive
> even
> > with no change in the product.
> > BTW the production cost of these and other mass produced items, like
> cars,
> > tends to be about 10-20% of retail BTW.
> > cheers,
> > Frank
> >
> > On 28 Feb, 2010, at 07:01, Mark Rabiner wrote:
> >
> > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Vince Passaro <
> passaro.vince at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Mark lit into the guy (Kevin) for his suggestion that the lens he
> used
> > >>> every
> > >>> day for a few years was not as good as the guy (Kevin) said it was.
> > >>> Regardless of the details that was the gist. "Hi Welcome to the Lug
> > you're
> > >>> wrong."  I was suggesting perhaps "Hi, those pictures are excellent"
> > might
> > >>> have been a better starting point for the argument.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Which took it off topic
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Sonny
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually my difference with him was that he was calling a ZM a "world
> > class
> > > lens" on par with the Leica lens costing three times as much.
> > > And there were no pictures being discussed.
> > >
> > > [Rabs]
> > > Mark William Rabiner
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Leica Users Group.
> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>


In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Zeiss Wide Angle 35mm f/2 Biogon T* ZM)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] Zeiss Wide Angle 35mm f/2 Biogon T* ZM)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Zeiss Wide Angle 35mm f/2 Biogon T* ZM)