Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/09/23

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Subject: [Leica] Salgado S2 now DR contrast
From: chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 13:03:58 -0400
References: <p06240803c8c0158f06c7@[192.168.1.107]> <C8BFF339.3DE2%mark@rabinergroup.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100923122805.046b0098@med.cornell.edu> <BFAB7584-FA87-4178-97AF-B93D9D8E5EB3@sfr.fr>

Yea, the JPEGS sometimes look harsh on the 
web.  I tend to down size them to save computer 
space.  I probably don't need to do that!!

At 12:45 PM 9/23/2010, you wrote:
>all look very harsh on my screen - could be the screen - yet the skin
>texture in the young lady and kid is what I would definitely avoid to
>get on young subjects.
>I'm not Salgado after all :-)
>Ph
>
>Le 23 sept. 10 ? 18:41, Chris Saganich a ?crit :
>
>>
>>
>>Yea, contrast is a light thing.  I keep proper hoods on always and
>>it helps.  Here are some examples of DR images of varying contrast
>>the only difference being the light and exposure as I use the same
>>film and processing.
>>
>>
>>http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2010/bs026.htm
>>
>>http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2010/bs029.htm
>>
>>http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20284.htm
>>
>>http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20274.htm
>>
>>Similar era Elmarit 50mm/2.8
>>
>>http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20298.htm
>>
>>http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20297.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>At 05:54 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I agree A lower contrast lens is "poorly implemented".
>>>In most cases though its an old lens from many previous decades
>>>which people
>>>are loving the characteristics of through the filter of their
>>>nostalgia.
>>>The lens is just old. In many cases needs to be cleaned.
>>>In modern terms its just a lower end lens. A lens in which less
>>>money has
>>>been invested. In older terms a lens with no or more privative
>>>coatings and
>>>with a more primitive optical design from what they knew then with
>>>more
>>>privative glass choice possibilities. And no pocket calculators
>>>helping them
>>>out.
>>>
>>>To make an image from a lower contrast optic means we have to jack
>>>up the
>>>contrast in the end. Resulting in more grain or noise. We then deal
>>>with
>>>that.
>>>
>>>Lower contrast optics are lovingly descried as "easier to print"
>>>but I've
>>>always found them more difficult to print as I've said above..  And
>>>I've
>>>seen few actually examples of these "easier to print" lenses on my
>>>screen or
>>>in hand.
>>>
>>>I'm not sure if the Leica M 50/2 Dual Range Summicron is a classic
>>>example
>>>of a lower contrast optic or not. I don't think low contrast is the
>>>defining
>>>characteristic of this lens. I think it has a bundle of positive
>>>attributes
>>>and may be a tad low in the contrast end. I'd love to be using one.
>>>
>>>--------------------
>>>Mark William Rabiner
>>>Photography
>>>mark at rabinergroup.com
>>>
>>>
>>> > From: Herbert Kanner <kanner at acm.org>
>>> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:29:20 -0700
>>> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Salgado S2
>>> >
>>> > As someone who was once a physicist before I went really wrong and
>>> > became an incompetent computer programmer (Physics Ph.D. 1951, U.
>>>of
>>> > Chicago) I want to comment on what could make a "low contrast
>>>lens".
>>> > A lens per se cannot manipulate contrast, it merely refracts what
>>>is
>>> > there. But miscellaneous scattered light not coming from the image
>>> > will reduce contrast as if the film (or sensor) had been exposed
>>>to a
>>> > low level of miscellaneous distributed light before or after the
>>> > actual taking of the picture. It is the same phenomenon that we try
>>> > to avoid by using a lens hood: scattered light inside the lens. So,
>>> > in my opinion, a "low contrast lens" is just a poorly implemented
>>> > lens: failure to coat internal elements, shiny internal structural
>>> > parts, whatever.
>>> >
>>> > Herb
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> If Salgato is looking for a  "low contrast lens" then it would
>>>have been
>>> >> better he took some photo courses instead of economic courses As
>>>that's
>>> >> photo dumb stuff 101. He's thinking a "low contrast lens" will
>>>give him more
>>> >> latitude he's wrong. Presumptuous of me to say? Well you do hear
>>>some real
>>> >> misconceptions about basic photo craft coming from some top
>>>level people old
>>> >> timers or young timers.  People who go to school to methodically
>>>study
>>> >> something but when they switch to photography when they get out
>>>they decide
>>> >> they're just going to be self taught deal. With photography
>>>being mainly an
>>> >> avocation  or self taught vocation there's going to be lots of
>>>wrong stuff
>>> >> floating around. And now we have the internet.
>>> >>
>>> >> --------------------
>>> >> Mark William Rabiner
>>> >> Photography
>>> >> mark at rabinergroup.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> From: Richard Man <richard at imagecraft.com>
>>> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> >>> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:23:01 -0700
>>> >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Salgado S2
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Heh, my summary of the talk I attended by Mr. Salgado a couple
>>>years which
>>> >>> has pretty much the exact information is still my most popular
>>>blog post.
>>> >>> People still find it and link to it...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> There is no evidence that he has switch to the S2... yet. He
>>>said he is
>>> >>> looking for "low contrast" lens so I'm not sure whether the S2
>>>lens would
>>> >>> do...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Mark Rabiner
>>> >> <mark at rabinergroup.com>wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> " On a more technical front, Sebastiao Salgado spoke about
>>>film vs.
>>> >>>> digital.
>>> >>>> He no longer shoots with film as the reasons to go digital
>>>mounted up.?The
>>> >>>> silver in current medium format films, are currently at levels
>>>that 35mm
>>> >>>> was
>>> >>>> 25 years ago.?The 600 rolls of 220 he carried on shoots
>>>weighed about 60
>>> >>>> lbs.?After 9/11 the security checkpoint that he goes through
>>>with exposed
>>> >>>> film (he told us 7 on the last trip) has affected the grain and
>>> >> contrast of
>>> >>>> the exposed film.?Plus there was the inevitable fight at each
>>> >> checkpoint to
>>> >>>> hand check the film. His assistant almost quit on his last
>>>trip from the
>>> >>>> constant battles.?So now it's a Canon DSLR for him. 21
>>>megapixels strong.
>>> >>>> But he is also looking at that new 
>>> LeicaS2 with 37 megapixels.? And his
>>> >>>> "film"? about 1.5 lbs of cards."
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> 
>>> http://www.examiner.com/photography-in-national/sebastiao-salgado-the-genesi
>>> >>>>
>>> >> 
>>> s-project<http://www.examiner.com/photography-in-national/sebastiao-salgado-t
>>>   
>>>  >>>> he-genesi%0As-project>
>>> >>>> Or
>>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/365nozf
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
>>> >>> // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.wordpress.com>
>>> >>> // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
>>> >>> [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include
>>>all previous
>>> >>> replies in your msgs. ]
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Leica Users Group.
>>> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>information
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Leica Users Group.
>>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>information
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Herbert Kanner
>>> > kanner at acm.org
>>> > 650-326-8204
>>> >
>>> > Do not meddle in the affairs of cats,
>>> > for they are subtle and will pee
>>> > on your computer!
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Leica Users Group.
>>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>information
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>Chris Saganich MS, CPH
>>Senior Physicist, Office of Health Physics
>>Weill Medical College of Cornell University
>>New York Presbyterian Hospital
>>chs2018 at med.cornell.edu
>>http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/
>>Ph. 212.746.6964
>>Fax. 212.746.4800
>>Office A-0049
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Leica Users Group.
>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

Chris Saganich MS, CPH
Senior Physicist, Office of Health Physics
Weill Medical College of Cornell University
New York Presbyterian Hospital
chs2018 at med.cornell.edu
http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/
Ph. 212.746.6964
Fax. 212.746.4800
Office A-0049


In reply to: Message from kanner at acm.org (Herbert Kanner) ([Leica] Salgado S2)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Salgado S2)
Message from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Salgado S2 now DR contrast)
Message from philippe.amard at sfr.fr (philippe.amard) ([Leica] Salgado S2 now DR contrast)