Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/10/08

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Subject: [Leica] Daniel's Comments on a Leica EVIL Camera at LHSA Wetzlar
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 23:04:42 -0400

A dry moat.

--------------------
Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
mark at rabinergroup.com


> From: "Richard S. Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 22:56:18 -0400
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Daniel's Comments on a Leica EVIL Camera at LHSA 
> Wetzlar
> 
> Gee, I  missed the moat.  Bummer! ;-)
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 08, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
> 
>> I also last spring walked the first time walked across the Brooklyn bridge
>> and saw joggers in spandex and orthodox Jews wearing the black clothing 
>> and
>> hats they wear. Very few cameras. It was a Monday night and getting dark.
>> Credit cart cameras.
>> Its impossible to jump off it by the way. There's a moat and you walk on 
>> the
>> center plank. They had to crack down on it I guess. Not that I was 
>> planning
>> on it.
>> 
>> --------------------
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photography
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>> mark at rabinergroup.com
>> 
>> 
>>> From: "Richard S. Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 21:38:26 -0400
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Daniel's Comments on a Leica EVIL Camera at LHSA
>>> Wetzlar
>>> 
>>> Me too.  When I walked across the Brooklyn Bridge in the Spring, I saw at
>>> least a half dozen G-1s and GF-1s in use.  The Panasonic exhibit at
>>> Photokina
>>> was absolutely mobbed, too, and the exhibit seemed to be mostly about
>>> micro-4/3rds: still, HD video and 3D video.
>>> 
>>> Regards, 
>>> 
>>> Dick
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 08, 2010, at 8:41 PM, slobodan Dimitrov wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm surprised in the amount of 4/3 cameras that I see in the hands of 
>>>> the
>>>> average consumer.
>>>> S.d.
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 8, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Richard Taylor wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I was also surprised at now many people were sporting Nikons and 
>>>>> Canons,
>>>>> sometimes in addition to Leicas, sometimes not.  There were quite a few
>>>>> micro-4/3rds cameras, too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What ever was in use, there were lots of pictures taken this year.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dick
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 07, 2010, at 1:57 AM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I participated in an LHSA event in Solms/Wetzlar back in 1998 or 99 or
>>>>>> 2000
>>>>>> and was struck by (1) the number of Leicas hanging from people's necks
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> shoulders, (2) the low frequency of same Leicas being lifted to the 
>>>>>> eye
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> order to take a picture.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> YNWA
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:34 AM, Richard Taylor wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yeah, well, at 70 I was just a bit over the median age I think.  
>>>>>>> Lotsa
>>>>>>> people took lotsa pictures.  I'm just starting to go through them, 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> shots from my week in Tokyo before the meeting, now.  I'll try to 
>>>>>>> post
>>>>>>> some soon.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dick
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 06, 2010, at 6:00 PM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Getting too old for an LHSA event? No way, Dick!
>>>>>>>> Did anyone in the party actually take any pictures?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> YNWA
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:32 PM, Richard Taylor wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Stefan Daniel was asked about the "R Solution" at the LHSA meeting 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> he replied with what I felt was considerable regret that it was
>>>>>>>>> economically unfeasible given the current competition in the DSLR
>>>>>>>>> market.  But, ...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> He went on to talk about the development of a *full-frame* camera 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> an EVF that would be primarily directed at M users but that would 
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> take R lenses with an adapter.  They are also considering 
>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> a line of autofocus lenses for this camera.  Let's hope they don't
>>>>>>>>> snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on this one like they did 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the X-1.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Another tidbit:  Leica, at least for its M lenses, remains 
>>>>>>>>> committed
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the development of lenses that are fully corrected optically - no
>>>>>>>>> firmware corrections, please.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> By far the most interesting thing at Photokina was the new Fuji 
>>>>>>>>> X100
>>>>>>>>> that Fuji was showing in mockup only but with an operating 
>>>>>>>>> viewfinder.
>>>>>>>>> The optical finder had projected frame lines and minimal info 
>>>>>>>>> (shutter
>>>>>>>>> speed, f-stop and ISO) so it was nicely uncluttered. A flick of a
>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>> converts the finder to an EVF.  It uses an APS-C sensor and I saw
>>>>>>>>> nothing to make me think the frame lines were parallax corrected.
>>>>>>>>> Cool,
>>>>>>>>> nevertheless!  It's about the size of a GF-1.  It looks like an
>>>>>>>>> interesting camera and I look forward to seeing some images from 
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The Wetzlar meeting was a lot of fun, but having signed up for 
>>>>>>>>> *all*
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> tours I ended the week walked out and considerably tired.  Maybe 
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> just getting too old for this kind of stuff.  :-)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dick
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 06, 2010, at 5:35 AM, Richard Man wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ah, so it's not even "may be we will look at it in 2 years, but
>>>>>>>>>> NEVER"
>>>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> (well not that I use the R systems, but seeing stuff from Doug and
>>>>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>>>>> clearly there is something there there)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:15 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at 
>>>>>>>>>> gmx.de>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I quote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> R-SYSTEM
>>>>>>>>>>> A digital solution in the form of a R10 was not presentable. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Such an
>>>>>>>>>>> investment would have been to great for Leica. The development of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> S-System cost ?30m. A similar effort for a digital R was not
>>>>>>>>>>> fundable.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Not presentable (nicht darstellbar) should be "not feasible" - 
>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> expression often used by engineers - so what was actually meant
>>>>>>>>>>> above
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> "we took a look at the idea and shelved it 'cos we couldn't 
>>>>>>>>>>> afford
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>>> month of Sundays, and it wouldn't be profitable even if we could"
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>> Douglas
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 06.10.2010 06:00, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Absolutely understandable disappointment for R lens owners of
>>>>>>>>>>>> course.
>>>>>>>>>>>> However the expectaiton for a 'solution' this Photokina came
>>>>>>>>>>>> entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> speculation and desire rather than specific promise. All largely
>>>>>>>>>>>> unremarked
>>>>>>>>>>>> here but there has been an awful lot of anguish and emotional
>>>>>>>>>>>> outpouring,
>>>>>>>>>>>> dummy spitting, rants and stompimg out of the room in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> (dedicated)
>>>>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>>>> Camera Forum.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stefan Daniel told us in mid 2009 that they were working on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'suitable
>>>>>>>>>>>> solution' but not to expect it before this Photokina etc.  That 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>>>>> has now slipped further but at least they have provided some
>>>>>>>>>>>> slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> specific information on the possible form that it may take (in
>>>>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>>>>> terms). I think that Leica Camera have learnt a lesson there and
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>>>>> likely to provide any specific models and developments that are
>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>> planned
>>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>> According to an attendee at the LHSA meeting in Wtezlar Leica
>>>>>>>>>>>> management
>>>>>>>>>>>> have now excluded the possible solution prior to photokina 2012.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally I am still stunned tht the S2 development costs were
>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>> 30
>>>>>>>>>>>> million EURO and I note their comment that other medium format
>>>>>>>>>>>> camera
>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers occupied something like 50% less floor space at 
>>>>>>>>>>>> pk.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> reassuring indicator for the genre, if unsurprising.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 October 2010 13:33, Jayanand Govindaraj<jayanand at 
>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looks like they are working overtime to 'repair their finances' 
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>> being. Can't blame them for that, it is a pragmatic business
>>>>>>>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jayanand
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Geoff
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopkinson<hopsternew at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andy Barton, a MOD on the L Camera Forum has posted a summary of
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> responses
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> from Leica Camera Executives to a number of questions on Leica
>>>>>>>>>>>> products
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> policy.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can read it here, even if not a meber of that forum
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/144758-lei>>>>>>>>>>>>
c
>>>>>>>>>>>> a-luf-%40-pkina-english.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>> // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.wordpress.com>
>>>>>>>>>> // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
>>>>>>>>>> [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all
>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>> replies in your msgs. ]
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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In reply to: Message from r.s.taylor at comcast.net (Richard Taylor) ([Leica] Daniel's Comments on a Leica EVIL Camera at LHSA Wetzlar)