Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/11/08

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Subject: [Leica] 80 Summilux R (was 'Am I being stupid? (R content)')
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:16:56 -0500

I shot mainly women and after a while diffused none of them and had no "old"
glass to use on them.
I just image Googled Karsh (who did photography quite a few women), and
Penn, and Avedon and the gals were just as sharp as the guys.
Karsh's shot of George Bernard Shaw seems a bit soft maybe from what I can
see.


--------------------
Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
mark at rabinergroup.com
Cars:   http://tinyurl.com/2f7ptxb




> From: Jim Nichols <jhnichols at lighttube.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:37:10 -0600
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 80 Summilux R (was 'Am I being stupid? (R content)')
> 
> Mark,
> 
> It sounds like you don't shoot many portraits of women, else you would also
> add that the portrait lens cannot be razor sharp in all details.  This is
> why older lenses find favor with those who specialize in this market.
> 
> Jim Nichols
> Tullahoma, TN USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Rabiner" <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 80 Summilux R (was 'Am I being stupid? (R content)')
> 
> 
>> This is nice to read because we're trying to ascertain the best rendering
>> best contrast and resolution lens for shooting people faces while
>> typically
>> on the internet you have to wade through half the guys talking about how
>> the
>> lens has to not be too sharp and be better off being old; and that is such
>> unmitigated claptrap that it makes me want to barf. A portrait lens is
>> like
>> any other lens. It should be the best lens performer in terms of highest
>> contrast and resolution.
>> The only consideration is what exact focal length you might tend to like
>> for
>> such a thing.
>> And some people think it should be on the fast side which I don't happen
>> to
>> agree with either I happen to think that this ultra extreme dof thing is
>> not
>> common for portraiture is an extreme effect and should be used very
>> sparingly. I don't think promotional shots wide open 85 1.4 would cut it.
>> They would just tell you its out of focus and re do it.
>> "well the eyes are in focus!"
>> Well so does a few other things need to be in focus.
>> With a ground glass it great to be looking at a wide open groundglass and
>> know that the final result you're going to have a lot more in focus.
>> Today I shot all day at f 5.6 and f 8 with an f 2 lens.
>> Just like the old days. I didn't miss my focase.
>> 
>> --------------------
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photography
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>> mark at rabinergroup.com
>> Cars:   http://tinyurl.com/2f7ptxb
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 10:16:00 +1000
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] 80 Summilux R (was 'Am I being stupid? (R content)')
>>> 
>>> Depends on what you are trying to achieve in your portrait of course.
>>> The Macro Elmar can be made to flare very readily in my experience,
>>> rendering results like a much older design. I'd not tolerate that in my
>>> other lenses I must comment.
>>> Nothing wrong with its resolving power but it is very unlike the modern
>>> APO
>>> ASPH designs.
>>> It also costs a LOT, partly since it is only available (new) as a package
>>> with the macro adapter and the angle finder
>>> Contrast characteristics are ameliorated in processing providing you
>>> expose
>>> appropriately of course. For my taste I prefer to have the option of
>>> reducing contast and detail selectively from the most modern designs.
>>> At least, personally I treat my Macro Elmar as a more specialised lens. A
>>> lot of fun to be had with the closer focus attachment though.
>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman/image/122535441
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> Geoff
>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7 November 2010 23:23, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The Macro Elmar-M 90mm f4 would have to be at least for me the ultimate
>>>> general portrait solution if I had an M9.
>>>> If I had a DMR I'd use 60 macro for most portraiture other than tight
>>>> headshots which would then bring me to a 100 macro.
>>>> 
>>>> I have two 90 m's the APO Summicron and the 2.8 Elmarit. I'd use both of
>>>> them on two M6's at the same time one with color film in it and one with
>>>> black and white in most cases.
>>>> And I have a 90 Elmar for my IIIF.
>>>> 
>>>> I have a 135 3.4 APO for tight head shots with my M6's or just a more
>>>> formal
>>>> flat look.
>>>> It was the second M lens I ever owned.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --------------------
>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>> Photography
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>> mark at rabinergroup.com
>>>> Cars:   http://tinyurl.com/2f7ptxb
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:39:49 +1000
>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] 80 Summilux R (was 'Am I being stupid? (R
>>>>> content)')
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I looked at the new shots after posting and recalled that they were
>>>>> shot
>>>> at
>>>>> minimum distance too so that invalidates the comparison of the field
>>>>> size
>>>> of
>>>>> a 90 @ 1m vs. Summicron 75 @ 0.7m  If you have the Macro Elmar then you
>>>> can
>>>>> compare directly yourself of course.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sorry I don't follow your preference for the APO 90 over the APO 75
>>>>> when
>>>>> already have the Macro Elmar but hey whatever makes sense to you of
>>>> course.
>>>>> Everyone's ideal lens selction is different/
>>>>>  Cheers
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>> NO ARCHIVE
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 7 November 2010 11:39, Tim Gray <tgray at 125px.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 07, 2010 at 11:23 AM +1000, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't know about prices where you are but here at least the 75 is
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>> "cheaper" new than the 90. I don't have any current used prices
>>>>>>> comparisons.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> New is not going to happen.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway some 75 samples if you are interested. I just went out into
>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> fairly fierce mid morning light and shot some more close ups vs. my
>>>> (Macro
>>>>>>> Elmar) 90. I think that you will be surprised. I'll post some
>>>>>>> uncropped
>>>>>>> comparisons soon
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'll be interested to see them.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I do have the Macro 90 since I feel it makes the perfect travel 90.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> gives me a good tight reproduction ratio when you need it, a bit of
>>>> extra
>>>>>> reach when you need it, and it doesn't take up a lot of space when you
>>>> don't
>>>>>> need it :)  The adapter is also pretty small and lets me focus even
>>>>>> more
>>>> on
>>>>>> something if I am inclined to.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




Replies: Reply from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] 80 Summilux R (was 'Am I being stupid? (R content)'))
In reply to: Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] 80 Summilux R (was 'Am I being stupid? (R content)'))