Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/12/21

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Subject: [Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison
From: hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:03:51 +1000
References: <C935A22E.817C%mark@rabinergroup.com> <1CD6B5C4-1ED7-4E1B-89FB-7FD33EC3EEA3@frozenlight.eu> <AANLkTi=ADTfr59wSr_shitKfuUROyGHnCt7c09YfJLC_@mail.gmail.com> <FE6BBD19-A5C6-47BA-9349-EEF2E5F744BC@frozenlight.eu> <AANLkTimj-6Kt6GNQ-1KdcjwLM9O39-CiEWkh9J2H2Pks@mail.gmail.com> <004501cba175$7323c240$596b46c0$@earthlink.net>

No. The firmware is unique and radically different for the M9 sensor. It
is from Jenoptik to Leica Camera's specs and the Cologne University staff
have assisted in the new, better Noise reduction algorithms,
See the recent information I already posted when  provided to me by Leica
technical staff.
There is a LOT of extra processing going on to make the 24x36 sensor work at
all with M lenses. That is why too that M lenses (especially wide ones)
adapted to other sensors can be problematic.

Also CCD was a design decision over CMOS for the Kodak custom sensor not a
compromise. Some anecdotal figures have suggested these cost upwards of
$1500 a sensor.
Leica Camera wasn't kidding when they said right from the start that it was
very difficult to produce a 'full frame' M.

" Dear Geoff thank you very much for your information.
We have had some complaints about the red edges, you are right. I will give
you the full technical explanation for that.
On the one side, we do have a very short distance from the lens to the
sensor (for this reason the m-system is so compact), on the other side the
pixels of the ccd sensor are not symmetric. This combination produces a
totally colored and inhomogenious RAW image. To provide a plain and neutral
image, we do a lot of complex compensation, sensor corrections and lens
vigentting corrections. What we achieve is a nearly neutral image, but
unfortunately just "nearly" neutral. The tolerances for the M9 are even
tighter as for the M8 with IR-filter, but unfortunately there are some very
slight deviations towards red, the obviously are not acceptable for some
special applications.
We did an improvement in a previous update, using the vignetting correction,
this improved the effect visibly. But unfortunately we had to recognize that
even this was not enough. There are still some complaints, therefore we
decided to apply additional correction algorithms for the critical lenses.
But developing these need unfortunately some time, because some sequences in
the internal data management have to be changed, this is always a difficult
and risky modification. Of course correcting this on a PC is an easy thing.
But letting the camera do this needs a very simple algorithm, because we
would not accept any delay in DNG mode.
We are planning to offer this update as soon as possible, but it will need
at least until spring 2011.
I hope this answer helps you understand the confusion about the red edges."




Cheers
Geoff
http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman


On 22 December 2010 11:13, Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I would find it hard to believe that the technology of the sensor at all
> affects the SW...... in the sense that it is radically different....
>
> Maybe there are subtle differences, but certainly a file is a file.
>  Process
> it as you see fit......CCD or CMOS
>
> Nikon has focused on the SW and seems to be doing pretty good.....   Leica
> lags ....Simple fact.
>
> Frank Filippone
> Red735i at earthlink.net
>
>
> Also, 3 letters: CCD. A major part of the digital camera R&D is on the post
> processing software, and I am referring to getting the best RAW data out of
> the sensor, not the JPG engine and Leica's expertise (so far) is on CCD
> sensors. It would have taken them a lot longer to get a CMOS team going.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)
Message from red735i at earthlink.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Erwin and the S2; comparison)