Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/01/05

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Subject: [Leica] What are the most important aspects of a photographic image?
From: richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:52:40 -0800
References: <AANLkTi=JYgcijXm3+5yP6LXyZi3LUd+ma40b_MFJQZRi@mail.gmail.com> <C94ACE5D.8D93%mark@rabinergroup.com>

I still shoot film so naturally that is B&W all the way. It's been Tri-X and
Neopan 1600 but I should do more ISO 100 on landscape stuff.

Digital starts with colors of course and the non-artsy-fartsy stuff stay
that way.

Artsy stuff get converted into B&W. Nik Silver Effect seems to be the
current standard and the demo looks good.

Printing B&W inkjet on gloss paper had been a PITA, but I have it under
control now. I wish I could do Ted's "push a button and it comes out great."
I don't think I am the only one though. When my printer finally bites the
dust, I think I will switch to Epson and use Roy Harrington's QuadRIP
system. That seems to address the issues quite well. I have seen Roy's
prints and they are gorgeous.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:41 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
wrote:

> Standing out is good. I don't mind standing out.
> I guess what I'm saying is it seemed more natural to shoot black and white
> pre year 2000.  And it seems more natural to shoot color now.
> Naturalness is good.
>
> In the past color darkrooms  were a pain and the results you'd get with
> them
> would fade but in the last years of film dominance the galleries were not
> shy of filling walls with them. And they supposedly don't fade like they
> used to.
>
> All that perhaps needs to happen to change some of this is for Adobe
> software to have the stuff in it that nikon software has.. that they want
> you to pay for does. All kinds of black and white settings that you can put
> in at the time of shooting. See in the back of your camera. Then also see
> when it pops up big on your computer screen at the time of, rating, editing
> and tweaking. I would just  expect that to happen soon. Because the Adobe
> raw filter is going to remain the standard and the norm.  And when it does
> happen perhaps I'll be changing my tune. And shooting and printing more
> black and white.
>
> Another thing is that color inkjet is a top ranked front row for sure
> process for color printing.
> While black and white inkjets this is less the solid case over silver
> gelatin prints. I think its a tossup between the two.
>
> I'd very much rather an inkjet than a Cibachrome or C print. Or any other
> common color darkroom processes I can think of.
> For such rarities as a  Fresson print or Dye transfer who knows?
>
>
> --------------------
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photography
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> mark at rabinergroup.com
> Cars:   http://tinyurl.com/2f7ptxb
>
>
>
>
> > From: Richard Man <richard at imagecraft.com>
> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> > Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 20:57:52 -0800
> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] What are the most important aspects of a
> photographic
> > image?
> >
> > But isn't this a great argument for fine honing one's skill in B&W, as to
> > stand out? :-)
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Used for what?  though as I've not been making this clear nor has anyone
> >> else.
> >> Shooting for the media we sure see mainly color.
> >> Shooting for the fine art gallery market I think its a toss up. With
> color
> >> advancing over black and white.
> >> I'm not sure about what other important categories there might be.
> >> Commercial photography? Very little black and white at this point.
> >> Portrait photography? Ten percent for those artsy people.
> >> What else?
> >> Promotional
> >> Fashion
> >> Event
> >> Interiors
> >> Industrial
> >> Theatrical
> >>
> >> Less and less black and white I'm seeing.
> >> As less and less stuff is for print. Which cost more for 4 color. And
> more
> >> and more stuff is for internet. Which is all color.
> >>
> >> I did walk into my apartment building last night and there was a
> newspaper
> >> on the floor in the mail area and the cover  shot was black and white.
> It
> >> was the NY Times. So people are still seeing breaking news in black and
> >> white.
> >>
> >> And I think a basic issue is they don't make black and white compact
> flash
> >> cards. So people are going to tend to see in color.
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------
> >> Mark William Rabiner
> >> Photography
> >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> >> mark at rabinergroup.com
> >> Cars:   http://tinyurl.com/2f7ptxb
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com>
> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >>> Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 09:01:02 -0800
> >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] What are the most important aspects of a
> >> photographic
> >>> image?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 4, 2011, at 8:39 AM, George Lottermoser wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jan 4, 2011, at 12:12 AM, Steve Barbour wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> or to put it another way.... if it depends on color to make its
> impact,
> >>>>> then it's largely lost,
> >>>>
> >>>> It really seems that we're slicing this subject much too thin;
> >>>> and expressing very personal preferences
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't think this is true George....clearly color should be used, "if
> >> it's
> >>> about color" but "if the image depends on color (only) to make its
> >> impact,
> >>> then it's largely lost"...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> is this not basically correct?  If it's not correct, why?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> rather than useful pointers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fine color photographs will use color extremely well
> >>>> as a major and important element.
> >>>> Ric, Kyle and others demonstrates this on a weekly basis.
> >>>>
> >>>> In other cases - yes - color can seem to get in the way
> >>>> of what may be an otherwise strong graphic image.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bottom line:
> >>>> the photographer must speak substantively
> >>>> and in a style appropriate to their own vision.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> George Lottermoser
> >>>> george at imagist.com
> >>>> http://www.imagist.com
> >>>> http://www.imagist.com/blog
> >>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
> > // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
> > // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
> > [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all
> previous
> > replies in your msgs. ]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
// richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
// icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
// photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
[ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all previous
replies in your msgs. ]


In reply to: Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] What are the most important aspects of a photographic image?)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] What are the most important aspects of a photographic image?)