Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/04/29

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Subject: [Leica] WAS:::: Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee NOW: POPULATION -- POLLUTION
From: tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:59:15 -0700
References: <333eb4ae-6060-cd42-f95b-a6b6516ce6bf@me.com> <2076DBBF304E4C1BA0063EA3D5E062DE@jimnichols> <797107B0-1F22-4B9C-85F4-54A94D355A1D@mac.com> <BANLkTinWXvDrzt_bqAbpdgkTMAEdizcFMA@mail.gmail.com> <46307C9E46DB443CA58998BEFC557A4F@syneticfeba505> <BANLkTinXd0MsFw4z0n6H+MWBs=TWwf_4XA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris:
I suppose my first reaction is, given the "Malthus Theory."  If I understand 
it correctly, the task for "saving the planet and sustaining the lives of 
humans as most in the developed countries enjoy" ........... we had better 
stop breeding? 

Or we as humans are going to eat and drink ourselves out of house and home! 
So, if that is the case given the life styles of the rich and famous and the 
general masses of plain ordinary middle class folks of the developed world ? 
How does all this Planet warming, ice melting and whatever other attributed 
"Act's of Mother Nature being ticked off " do we do in a logical common 
sense manner to save humans and planet Earth?

Or as you say, "Here we have the fundamental conflict between pursuing our
> direct interests and the interests of the larger group. Unfortunately the
> evidence is that the former can so easily outweigh the latter. <<<<<<

In other words.... those who enjoy the finer things in life don't want to be 
inconvenienced by lack of cars, refrigerators, gasoline, foods of all kinds, 
air travel and the many many things we just take for granted it will always 
be there. But when  all of a sudden we're told you can only drive your car 
three days a week! And gasoline is $20.oo a gallon? Why the screaming and 
yelling and blaming the government, profit gouging oil production companies 
would be horrendous.  I suppose the phrase, " We Have Met the Enemy and He 
Is Us!"  Might just fit this situation, making it an impossible life style 
to correct?

And if that is the case? How then can anyone turn the whole weather warming 
situation around and save the planet and people??????? Particularly when 
nobody wants to give up anything accepted as normal life style?

I fear this may become a heavy duty topic, too burdensome for e-mail 
exchanges? 

ted



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Birchenhall" <abbeyfoto at gmail.com>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee


> Ted
> 
> "How do we turn it around and stop it without decimating the world
> population and industrial empires whose products are increasingly demanded
> by humans?"
> 
> Lets assume for one moment the emissions from the human species
> lifestyle/technology is responsible. In this context your ironic question
> reflects a deep pessimistic understanding that the animal species, 
> including
> humans, are mainly focused on the well being of their children and
> grandchildren - that is our evolutionary heritage. Yet our technology
> requires us to comply with the needs of "division of labour" and
> cooperation. Here we have the fundamental conflict between pursuing our
> direct interests and the interests of the larger group. Unfortunately the
> evidence is that the former can so easily outweight th latter.  It is not
> clear political devices can overcome this conflict, particularly in a
> multinational context. This is not to suggest we become fatalistic but it
> does suggest it is not going to be easy.
> 
> Population growth is relevant and controversial, but Malthus may need to be
> reconsidered, particularly if we reasonably assume the ever larger
> population will wish to attain, if not exceed, the lifestyle experienced by
> many of the world today - which is my take on your second phrase quoted
> above.
> 
> Chris B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 4:29 PM, <tedgrant at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Jayanand Govindaraj OFFERED:
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee
>>
>>
>> +1
>>> It will only continue and intensify, unless humankind as a whole takes
>>> Global Warming seriously, instead of playing politics with the topic.
>>>
>>
>> Jayanand mon ami,
>>
>> I fear it's highly unlikely much will be done as long as costs and profits
>> are at loggerheads within multi-national corporations and countries 
>> driving
>> what will and wont be done. Regardless of tornadoes and the angry acts of
>> Mother Nature I see no real end to much of the pollutions. Or weather
>> chnages!
>>
>> Besides isn't it reasonable to think that maybe, "just maybe?" The 
>> changing
>> weather atmosphere conditions are merely the changing ways that have 
>> existed
>> for eons on planet Earth? But because no one was around 1000's of years a 
>> go
>> or 100 years ago tracking weather in the manner so easily done in our 
>> modern
>> electronic fact gathering of today? We really have no absolute record of 
>> the
>> way it was?
>>
>> I'm not for one moment saying we as human masses and our manufacturing
>> capabilities are not having an effect. But if we are without unequivocal
>> proof that human kind is responsible ? How do we turn it around and stop 
>> it
>> without decimating the world population and industrial empires whose
>> products are increasingly demanded by humans? ?
>>
>> Or maybe right there is part of the answer........... there are way too
>> many humans living on the planet and breeding should stop for 100 years?
>> Trust me that just isn't going to happen either.
>>
>> But just think how many Leica's could be sold if the numbers increased? 
>> ;-)
>> I just had to keep it on topic..... people and Leicas!
>>
>> cheers,
>> ted
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


Replies: Reply from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] WAS:::: Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee NOW: POPULATION -- POLLUTION)
In reply to: Message from s_gregory1 at mac.com (s_gregory1) ([Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee)
Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca) ([Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee)
Message from abbeyfoto at gmail.com (Chris Birchenhall) ([Leica] Luggers in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee)